The white river isn't a great nov elk hunt tag, it is tough. I hunted the unit most my young adult life when it was over the counter, I started killing elk about every other year before it went to permit only. I was the only guy in camp to kill elk, not bragging, just saying it can be a tough hunt. There are a few sweet spots but even those dry up some years, hope you had fun Rick, it sounds like you tried very hard. You will get em next time.