Out of State Elk- Opinions Please

[cbond3318]

I know I could search but as the times change so do opinions so.... here is what I am planning.

Any 1 of the Western States
Branch Antler Bull
5 guys
OTC tag
Any weapon based on OTC and unit access
Possibly fully guided (not required)
Best success possibility
$ relative to success

What would HuntWa do?

[grundy53]

Tagging

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[Mr Mykiss]

"Best success possibility"
"$ relative to success"

What is "success"?

Number of bulls killed?
or
Size o bulls killed?

[cbond3318]

"Best success possibility"
"$ relative to success"

What is "success"?

Number of bulls killed?
or
Size o bulls killed?

Number of tags notched.

[ipkus]

Yep, need more info.

You are going to be hard pressed to go into any area that is new to your group, unguided, and shoot several bulls the first year without 1.) a ton of research and legwork (much more than asking for advice on a bb), and 2.) having a group of guys that are hard chargers that know how to kill elk.  Heck, it'll be challenging to do it in an OTC area with an outfitter without it being really expensive.

What is the 'perfect' way you'd like your hunt to go down, and maybe we can help work back from there?

[Bean Counter]

You can get a general tag in Wyoming for the expensive Special Tag price. At least you could a few years ago. Check the 2015 draw odds/success on their database and let us know.

Otherwise there's Colorado. Not known for big bulls but a big herd population.

I don't know much about Idaho or Montana but my impression is that a lot of you Washingtonians head that way.

[cbond3318]

Yep, need more info.

You are going to be hard pressed to go into any area that is new to your group, unguided, and shoot several bulls the first year without 1.) a ton of research and legwork (much more than asking for advice on a bb), and 2.) having a group of guys that are hard chargers that know how to kill elk.  Heck, it'll be challenging to do it in an OTC area with an outfitter without it being really expensive.

What is the 'perfect' way you'd like your hunt to go down, and maybe we can help work back from there?

Ok, lets work it this way. 1 guy wants to choose a state with an OTC bull elk tag, choose a weapon based on the OTC tag availability and unit access and hunt an area with the highest probability of opportunity. Does not have to be guided but is a possibility strictly a cause of inability to scout efficiently. You are a hard charging Elk getting SOB.

[cbond3318]

You can get a general tag in Wyoming for the expensive Special Tag price. At least you could a few years ago. Check the 2015 draw odds/success on their database and let us know.

Otherwise there's Colorado. Not known for big bulls but a big herd population.

I don't know much about Idaho or Montana but my impression is that a lot of you Washingtonians head that way.

But you have to have a guide as a NR correct?

[Bean Counter]

Only to enter the wilderness areas. Its a racket their guides got together and pushed through the legislature. Which is B.S. in my opinion. I might pay a landowner for access, but I'll never pay a dime to a guide in that state so long as that law stands. I pay for that national forest as much as Wyoming residents do. Personally I hope that law is challenged in court and tossed out. e. 

[Bob33]

You can get a general tag in Wyoming for the expensive Special Tag price. At least you could a few years ago. Check the 2015 draw odds/success on their database and let us know.

Otherwise there's Colorado. Not known for big bulls but a big herd population.

I don't know much about Idaho or Montana but my impression is that a lot of you Washingtonians head that way.

But you have to have a guide as a NR correct?

Or resident companion, in wilderness areas only, for big game only.

[nwwanderer]

Tall order, high fence in any of the legal states, cull stag in Scotland or New Zealand or play your political cards right for depredation tags in the Skagit?  Great hunts all over, good chance of all filling tags, not so much unless you budget $40,000 plus.

[hunterofelk]

South Western Montana is good.  If you don't mind spending the NR fees, should get the tags required.  Any of your group Montana born with relatives still in state?  Montana has a come home to hunt program. The fees in this program are very reasonable.  I know there was one outfit, should be many more, would do drop camps.  Broken Arrow from the Ennis area?  If you want to drive ATV's around, a lot of the so-called roads are really ATV trails.  This year was pretty good with the cold and snow.  Several districts are open to antler-less.  In the little towns there are motels with the sportsman in mind if you don't want to camp.  Hunting areas are within driving distance of course.

[ipkus]

Ok, so...decent non-resident OTC bull tag states;

Idaho
Oregon

Other states that are not technically OTC, but have hunts you basically can draw/buy every year;

Montana
Colorado
Wyoming (general elk tag is 40% odds with 1 pref. point, special ($$) is 45% odds with 0 pref. points)


Your options as a NR will typically be best using archery equipment, but every state listed above has at least some good general rifle hunts.

Some of the things that really matter to people that you need to decide to help narrow it down;

Distance - Hours in the truck will wear on you, adds to the expense, and makes it harder to scout any other time of year.
Time of year - Archery in September vs. late November rifle hunts are usually the same difference as Africa and the North Pole.
Quality - it varies, even within each state.  If your main goal is to simply be in good elk numbers so you have a realistic chance to kill at least a raghorn every year, my list probably looks like this; 1.) Colorado 2.) Wyoming 3.) Montana 4.) Idaho 5.) Oregon

[cbond3318]

Ok, so...decent non-resident OTC bull tag states;

Idaho
Oregon

Other states that are not technically OTC, but have hunts you basically can draw/buy every year;

Montana
Colorado
Wyoming (general elk tag is 40% odds with 1 pref. point, special ($$) is 45% odds with 0 pref. points)


Your options as a NR will typically be best using archery equipment, but every state listed above has at least some good general rifle hunts.

Some of the things that really matter to people that you need to decide to help narrow it down;

Distance - Hours in the truck will wear on you, adds to the expense, and makes it harder to scout any other time of year.
Time of year - Archery in September vs. late November rifle hunts are usually the same difference as Africa and the North Pole.
Quality - it varies, even within each state.  If your main goal is to simply be in good elk numbers so you have a realistic chance to kill at least a raghorn every year, my list probably looks like this; 1.) Colorado 2.) Wyoming 3.) Montana 4.) Idaho 5.) Oregon

Awesome input, thank you! At this point quantity is more important than quality. One of our group has limited hunting years left so I am looking at this as a 1 time hunt for the group with an expectation for future hunts to grow off of this one. My first thoughts we're Idaho and Wyoming but also want to take in account the other aspects of the hunt like coolness of location! While harvesting will be the primary focus the outlying aspects of the trip will be important as well.

[cbond3318]

South Western Montana is good.  If you don't mind spending the NR fees, should get the tags required.  Any of your group Montana born with relatives still in state?  Montana has a come home to hunt program. The fees in this program are very reasonable.  I know there was one outfit, should be many more, would do drop camps.  Broken Arrow from the Ennis area?  If you want to drive ATV's around, a lot of the so-called roads are really ATV trails.  This year was pretty good with the cold and snow.  Several districts are open to antler-less.  In the little towns there are motels with the sportsman in mind if you don't want to camp.  Hunting areas are within driving distance of course.

Thank you! No one born in Montana so NR fees are expected. The use of ATV's would fit one of the group, are there areas within this that can accommodate a roadless , pack in pack out style hunt?

[Timberstalker]

Good thread!

[deerslyr]

If looking for quanity for 5. Hands down colorado!

[cbond3318]

If looking for quanity for 5. Hands down colorado!

Would you use a guide? Taking in account that is on the farther reaches of travel time.

[deerslyr]

If you use a guide your probability of success goes up greatly. If you have the money go with a guide. Also if your going guided I'd go to Montana with an outfitter that operates on private land. I can recommend a few if u decide to go that route

[cbond3318]

If you use a guide your probability of success goes up greatly. If you have the money go with a guide. Also if your going guided I'd go to Montana with an outfitter that operates on private land. I can recommend a few if u decide to go that route

I would love to hear guide options. Right now budget is based on guided.

[deerslyr]

Whats your budget?

[deerslyr]

My first suggestion would be Montana Hunt and Fish. I used to guide for them and they have awesome leases. Although quite pricey.

[cbond3318]

Whats your budget?

Don't necessarily have a budgeted amount but an option to find the best hunts guided or not.

[cbond3318]

My first suggestion would be Montana Hunt and Fish. I used to guide for them and they have awesome leases. Although quite pricey.

I will check them out and get back with you. Thanks!

[zike]

Just a thought, the Canadian dollar is worth $.75 on a US dollar. I wonder if it would be worth it to hunt Canada? I may have to look into a buck buck hunt in Canada.

[Bean Counter]

Just a thought, the Canadian dollar is worth $.75 on a US dollar. I wonder if it would be worth it to hunt Canada? I may have to look into a buck buck hunt in Canada.

The U.S. Dollar is strong against most EVERY currency in the world right now. This is why gas is cheap right now and it made sense to buy my most recent camera from a Japanese importer. Why stop at Canada? Go to Canada, New Zealand, AND Africa! 

[cbond3318]

My first suggestion would be Montana Hunt and Fish. I used to guide for them and they have awesome leases. Although quite pricey.

Boy you aren't kidding there! looks like a great outfitter but holy smokes!

[cbond3318]

Anyone familiar with ranches that will charge a trespass fee to allow access?

[Stalker]

I would look to CO based on what you have listed so far since tags are relatively easy to get. Take a look at the success rates for various GMUs. CO has leftover tags that go on sale in early Aug that are 1st come 1st serve and they have good OTC access. CO has the largest elk heard in the country and does produce some quality bulls. One thing you may consider since you state that you are probably looking to make this an annual trip is to not get hung up on bulls for the entire group. You can purchase cow tags for about 1/2 the cost of a bull. So if 2 guys in the group get bull tags and the rest go for cows you are probably bringing home meat. I have hunted GMUs 421, 22, 511, 82, 86 and 12. Never had a problem finding animals if you are willing to hunt. Guide may be a good way to go for a season or two until you get to know an area. ATVs can be used in most areas just cannot use them off trails and other areas like wilderness.  Hope this helps some. 

[cbond3318]

I would look to CO based on what you have listed so far since tags are relatively easy to get. Take a look at the success rates for various GMUs. CO has leftover tags that go on sale in early Aug that are 1st come 1st serve and they have good OTC access. CO has the largest elk heard in the country and does produce some quality bulls. One thing you may consider since you state that you are probably looking to make this an annual trip is to not get hung up on bulls for the entire group. You can purchase cow tags for about 1/2 the cost of a bull. So if 2 guys in the group get bull tags and the rest go for cows you are probably bringing home meat. I have hunted GMUs 421, 22, 511, 82, 86 and 12. Never had a problem finding animals if you are willing to hunt. Guide may be a good way to go for a season or two until you get to know an area. ATVs can be used in most areas just cannot use them off trails and other areas like wilderness.  Hope this helps some.

Great info ! Thanks. I like the idea of getting a couple cow tags mixed in with the group. hadn't thought of that outlook before! I think I am leaning towards unguided but maybe a drop style hunt or even purchase of Guide maps if that's an option. I feel like with some intel , we shouldn't have an issue finding animals within a given area....

[luvtohnt]

I have had good luck in Wyoming, all unguided. Generally with 1 point you are guaranteed to draw a General tag (we missed in 2013 because you had to average 1.6 points and we averaged 1.4 points).

2014 Draw odds for general tag in Wyoming (sorry if it is messy I copied and pasted)
Issued        Points       Applicants                success
    2                  7                2                            100.00%
     0             < 7                 0                            100.00%
     9                 6                9                            100.00%
     0               <6               0                            100.00%
     9                 5                9                           100.00%
     7                <5              7                            100.00%
     37               4               37                          100.00%
     28              <4              28                         100.00%
     83               3              83                           100.00%
     114            <3            114                         100.00%
     337              2             337                         100.00%
     311           < 2             311                        100.00%
     800              1             1200                       66.67%
                        0 < 1        2550                          0.00%

We hunt in western Wyoming, and in 2011 (group success was 50%) I took a 300" bull and my buddy took a 310' bull, and in 2014 (group success was 22%)  I took a cow. 2014 was rough 1 guy went down on day 2 with back problems, and one guy suffered from altitude sickness the entire time and his son really did not want to go with anyone else. The neighboring camp shot a 350" bull right behind camp in 2014, so there is potential for the occasional trophy. We also had an elderly gentleman that would hike maybe a mile and sit all day. So in reality we were closer to 40% success in 2014. We saw grizzly tracks, and a couple camps actually saw the bear. It was cold and snowy which made the hunting fun.

Lots of public land in Wyoming, and there are some great places to hunt that don't require a guide. As far as cost I spend roughly $2500 for everything each time I go. This includes processing which is necessary as anything from Wyoming has to be boneless to come into WA. Fuel cost for both directions, hotels during travel, food, camp gas, ect..

All 2014 Non-resident stats
Firearm harvest was 87.9%
Unit I harvested in was 51%
Neighboring unit was 37% (we hunt this unit as well.
Hope this helps

Bonus is Wyoming usually has leftover tags, which allows you to harvest 2 animals or purchase a leftover to guarantee you go every year.

Brandon

[cbond3318]

That does help a ton! So for a first time applicant you go in with one point?

[luvtohnt]

First time applicant I believe you would have 0 points, but you can buy points in Wyoming. Your best bet for 2016 would be apply (most likely not get drawn) then buy leftover tags, and get to know the area you want to hunt (leftover tags are cheaper if I remember correctly), buy a point in summer of 2016 and go into the 2017 drawing with 2 points which should be 100% success rate on drawing. If done this way you will know the area well by the time you are ready to try for a bull. Plus who wouldn't want to hunt  2 years in a row in Wyoming!!!

Brandon

[cbond3318]

First time applicant I believe you would have 0 points, but you can buy points in Wyoming. Your best bet for 2016 would be apply (most likely not get drawn) then buy leftover tags, and get to know the area you want to hunt (leftover tags are cheaper if I remember correctly), buy a point in summer of 2016 and go into the 2017 drawing with 2 points which should be 100% success rate on drawing. If done this way you will know the area well by the time you are ready to try for a bull. Plus who wouldn't want to hunt  2 years in a row in Wyoming!!!

Brandon

Good point.  I assume leftover tags are antlerless?

[ipkus]

How do you get from 0 to 2 points in one year??

[bobcat]

How do you get from 0 to 2 points in one year??

You can't.

[luvtohnt]

How do you get from 0 to 2 points in one year??

You can't.

I thought each unsuccessful application was a point earned, and you can purchase points during the summer?

Brandon

[luvtohnt]

"No person may apply for, or be awarded, more than one (1) preference point per species in the same calendar year."

My bad, I was mis-led by my friend in Wyoming. I usually just buy my points in July and apply every other year.

Sorry for the confusion.

Brandon

[Bob33]

First time applicant I believe you would have 0 points, but you can buy points in Wyoming. Your best bet for 2016 would be apply (most likely not get drawn) then buy leftover tags, and get to know the area you want to hunt (leftover tags are cheaper if I remember correctly), buy a point in summer of 2016 and go into the 2017 drawing with 2 points which should be 100% success rate on drawing. If done this way you will know the area well by the time you are ready to try for a bull. Plus who wouldn't want to hunt  2 years in a row in Wyoming!!!

Brandon

Good point.  I assume leftover tags are antlerless?

There are some of each, but many more antlerless.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/QuotaAvailability/SelectionCriteria.aspx

[theleo]

I'm a southern Idaho fan. I hunt in the "Back country" with nothing motorized allowed on the trails which really limits people there. I know the outfitter in that country normally has several drop camps for various groups. I'm 2 for 2 archery and all totaled 3 for 3 due to one rifle tag. I'm a meat hunter, so the ability to take any elk during archery season is nice. There was a total of 5 guys where I was at this year. I got mine and they ended up wounding 3, so it should have been %80 success.

[cbond3318]

I really need to sit down and go through each states pamphlets , it is like reading Chinese though! 

[Bob33]

You might wish to buy a year's subscription to Huntin' Fool. They carry pretty extensive information on all the western states.

[cbond3318]

You might wish to buy a year's subscription to Huntin' Fool. They carry pretty extensive information on all the western states.

Thanks Bob, I will look into it!

[Branden]

If quantity is your thing I would pick Colorado. I have also seen really good bulls there 340"-350". Buddy killed a 346" in an otc unit there.

Whoever said Colorado isn't otc for elk is wrong. Most of the units are otc for archery, second, and third season. Muzzy is draw along with first and fourth season.

I'm a fan of Colorado because you can buy your tag the day before the season starts. largest elk heard of any state. Lots of different type of terrain. Lots of different seasons. And the best state to hunt deer in. Find a decent elk unit and get a deer tag there occasionally. Or 3 guys get elk tags 2 deer tags etc. it's hard for every hunter to tag out. We have went 4 for 4 on bulls in Colorado, but last time I went we were only 1 for 2. (My dad has bad knees and couldn't get around very well). We saw 13 legal bulls though with the best being 330ish.

[grundy53]

You might wish to buy a year's subscription to Huntin' Fool. They carry pretty extensive information on all the western states.

Or Gohunt.com. They are pretty good too.

http://www.gohunt.com/