Virginia ends reciprocity with 25 states including Washington

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Any law that even has the effect of lowering gun ownership is unconstitutional. 

The NRA and pro-2nd amendment folks are fighting a losing battle if we don't realize the horrible mistake of fighting with our hands tied behind our backs.  This nonsense about so called "criminals" shouldn't have guns is going to be the end of our rights.  It's just dumb and the end result is so predictable, but getting people to see down the road seems to be hard to do.

The obvious ploy is to make enough laws where everyone is  criminal and therefore unable to legally own guns.

[csaaphill]

RICHMOND, Va. –  Concealed handgun permits held by residents of 25 states will no longer be valid in Virginia, the state's attorney general said Tuesday, drawing swift criticism from GOP lawmakers.

Attorney General Mark Herring, a Democrat, said the state will revoke its reciprocity agreement with the states because their concealed weapon laws don't meet Virginia's standards. Those states hand out permits to people who are barred under the Virginia law, like fugitives, convicted stalkers and drug dealers, which undermines the state's law and puts residents at risk, he said.

"Evenly, consistently and fairly enforcing Virginia's concealed handgun permit law, as we are now doing, means that it will be more difficult for potentially dangerous individuals to conceal their handguns here in Virginia and that will make Virginians safer, especially Virginian law enforcement," Herring said.

The move means that Virginians will no longer be able to use their concealed handgun permits in six states that require a mutual reciprocity agreement: Florida, Louisiana, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Wyoming.

John Whitbeck, chairman of the Virginia Republican Party, said Herring's announcement was further proof that Democrats have "declared war on the Second Amendment."

The top Republican in the GOP-controlled House of Delegates said that Herring is "damaging the integrity of the office he holds."

"Despite promising to take politics out of the attorney general's office, Mark Herring consistently seeks to interpret and apply the law of the Commonwealth through the lens of his own personal, political opinions," House Speaker William Howell said.

Lars Dalseide, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association, said concealed handgun reciprocity agreements between states have ended before, but his organization is unaware of another state ever implementing a change of this magnitude.

States are currently being notified about the change, which goes into effect on Feb. 1, Herring said. The only states that have tough enough laws to maintain their reciprocity agreement with Virginia are: Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah and West Virginia, he said.

The states whose permits Virginia will no longer recognize are: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/22/virginia-to-end-recognizing-concealed-carry-gun-permits-from-25-states.html?intcmp=hpbt3

I can just see this as something that will happen just like that women who got pulled over in NJ and was arrested, and threatened with several years in prison because NJ didn't recognize her gun permit. If it weren't for gun owners coming to her aid she'd be in prison by now.

[csaaphill]

I always thought the 2nd amendment was our permit, but I guess that's just me.

[huntnphool]

Using that reasoning, Washington Driver's Licenses shouldn't be recognized in forty something states, because Washington even gives them out to illegals.

 Did you know that Washington drivers licenses will soon not be enough to fly? One of only a couple states who's licenses will require additional ID at airports.

[Bob33]

Using that reasoning, Washington Driver's Licenses shouldn't be recognized in forty something states, because Washington even gives them out to illegals.

 Did you know that Washington drivers licenses will soon not be enough to fly? One of only a couple states who's licenses will require additional ID at airports.

Yep.
www.nytimes.com/2015/12/29/business/tsa-moves-closer-to-rejecting-some-state-drivers-licenses-for-travel.html?_r=0

[csaaphill]

Yeah there should be.  If you are a law abiding citizen then you have the permit.  If not and you get busted concealed carrying, go directly to jail and pay $200.  Its a good way to keep firearms out of the hand of people who are up to no good with them. 

And what the Virginia AG just did is try and make ALL legal gun owners criminals.  The only people this stunt harms IS LEGAL GUN OWNERS!!

 You really think fugitives, convicted stalkers and drug dealers should be allowed to carry legally?  Come on man. 
What the AG just did is say we dont want these people legally carrying in our state because they shouldn't be allowed too.  A few states did make the cut.  Maybe move to Texas, then you can visit Virgina and pack your pistol all you want!

Not that anyone supports that, but our founders had it written that liberty was more important than Peace and safety.
SO no, but I'd rather have the liberty as our founders had intended than this BS crap of needing an infringement to do what's a natural God giving right, which is self defense of life and liberty when the situation arises.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
 Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
 Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
 quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine
"To preserve liberty, it is essential [/i]that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
 American Statesman, 1788
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin
 American Statesman

[pianoman9701]

"Not that anyone supports that, but our founders had it written that liberty was more important than Peace and safety. " They were talking about giving up liberty to the government in return for safety, such as the Patriot Act, for example. They were not talking about criminals who've lost their rights because of their crimes. To the contrary, one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment is for people to retain the right to protect themselves against those who would harm them - criminals and an oppressive government, to name two.

[csaaphill]

"Not that anyone supports that, but our founders had it written that liberty was more important than Peace and safety. " They were talking about giving up liberty to the government in return for safety, such as the Patriot Act, for example. They were not talking about criminals who've lost their rights because of their crimes. To the contrary, one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment is for people to retain the right to protect themselves against those who would harm them - criminals and an oppressive government, to name two.

Yes they were, or at least they were talking about it in the sense of not making laws that made for more crime. They did not have it planed for other than the time of incarceration of people losing their rights. meaning as we've argued before on here that once you served  your time, and paid your dues you instantly got your rights back.
Benjamin Franklin's quote of people giving up liberty for peace and safety means people adopting laws (and your partially correct with the patriot act, but fall short.) If they wanted a criminal act to be a life sentence of losing their rights they would have 200 years ago. You shouldn't be so supportive of people losing their rights because of some infraction in their life, because of these kinds of statements.:
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. – Thomas Jefferson
An Avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret,
and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even
his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach
to himself. – Thomas Paine

[csaaphill]

"Not that anyone supports that, but our founders had it written that liberty was more important than Peace and safety. " They were talking about giving up liberty to the government in return for safety, such as the Patriot Act, for example. They were not talking about criminals who've lost their rights because of their crimes. To the contrary, one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment is for people to retain the right to protect themselves against those who would harm them - criminals and an oppressive government, to name two.

and just so ou know not arguing or flaming you, but it does seem were on opposite sides of the same fence. You see more for as things are, and only trying to protect what little we have, while I'm more for what is supposed to be and not being so quick to rely on law, or say they deserve what they get, when we shouldn't have most those laws to begin with.