Lab or GSP

[AspenBud]

Ok all turning to forums and opinions...  Trying to decide if want another Lab or a GSP for next puppy

Was all but 100% sure I was going to get a GSP for my next dog, but have been reconsidering a little lately.  Love my labs and have a pointing lab now and nothing beats watching a dog lock up on point, BUT alot of hunting in Eastern WA for pheasants is in the thick stuff and just wondering if a good flusher would be better.  I only hunt for upland mostly pheasants with some quail and Huns as seen when out and about.  I usually go to a reserve for the border 2 months of the season and then during Nov, Dec hunt all wild birds.  Also, want to start making a trip to MT each year to hunt the areas there...

So my question is what do other like and why...not trying to turn this into a bash on each dog etc as I love both and they both do very very well.  So really just looking to see others experiences and if they would get a Lab instead of a GSP if they had or vice versa..

Thanks

I am of the opinion that in heavy cover situations the flusher (lab) is going to give you more shot opportunities. Mainly because you can let them root out the birds while you stand/walk in the birds' escape routes (open ground) and take a shot at them as they fly. That applies to grouse and pheasant. That's not to say that pointers can't do a credible job on both, they do. But given how we train pointers in this country to stand still until we the handlers flush the birds you are put in less favorable shooting positions. If we trained pointers as is done in Europe (they flush on command) this would be less of an issue. A lab (or any other flusher for that matter) is also not at a disadvantage among different species of bird. Pointers, all pointers, can be since their game is all about not pressuring a bird into flying. A pointing dog that mainly hunts pheasants will suffer when hunting spookier birds because they will have become used to birds that run and frankly those points will be much closer. A pointing dog that is used to hunting birds that require longer distance points, points that come at first scent, will be at a disadvantage with pheasants that like to run rather than stay still. A lab (or any other flushing dog) doesn't have that problem. Their mission is to find those birds and push them up. Standing still, space between them and the birds, that's all irrelevant with them.

The above said, in more open terrain a pointer is going to be an asset as they can cover more ground than the lab and do so faster.

If you think you might ever chase ducks or geese your options are really down to a lab, chessie, poodle, a spaniel, or one of the "ugly dogs."

Just something for you to chew on.   

[Ruger]

Ok all turning to forums and opinions...  Trying to decide if want another Lab or a GSP for next puppy

Was all but 100% sure I was going to get a GSP for my next dog, but have been reconsidering a little lately.  Love my labs and have a pointing lab now and nothing beats watching a dog lock up on point, BUT alot of hunting in Eastern WA for pheasants is in the thick stuff and just wondering if a good flusher would be better.  I only hunt for upland mostly pheasants with some quail and Huns as seen when out and about.  I usually go to a reserve for the border 2 months of the season and then during Nov, Dec hunt all wild birds.  Also, want to start making a trip to MT each year to hunt the areas there...

So my question is what do other like and why...not trying to turn this into a bash on each dog etc as I love both and they both do very very well.  So really just looking to see others experiences and if they would get a Lab instead of a GSP if they had or vice versa..

Thanks

I am of the opinion that in heavy cover situations the flusher (lab) is going to give you more shot opportunities. Mainly because you can let them root out the birds while you stand/walk in the birds' escape routes (open ground) and take a shot at them as they fly. That applies to grouse and pheasant. That's not to say that pointers can't do a credible job on both, they do. But given how we train pointers in this country to stand still until we the handlers flush the birds you are put in less favorable shooting positions. If we trained pointers as is done in Europe (they flush on command) this would be less of an issue. A lab (or any other flusher for that matter) is also not at a disadvantage among different species of bird. Pointers, all pointers, can be since their game is all about not pressuring a bird into flying. A pointing dog that mainly hunts pheasants will suffer when hunting spookier birds because they will have become used to birds that run and frankly those points will be much closer. A pointing dog that is used to hunting birds that require longer distance points, points that come at first scent, will be at a disadvantage with pheasants that like to run rather than stay still. A lab (or any other flushing dog) doesn't have that problem. Their mission is to find those birds and push them up. Standing still, space between them and the birds, that's all irrelevant with them.

The above said, in more open terrain a pointer is going to be an asset as they can cover more ground than the lab and do so faster.

If you think you might ever chase ducks or geese your options are really down to a lab, chessie, poodle, a spaniel, or one of the "ugly dogs."

Just something for you to chew on.   

Nice write up...thanks

This is exactly my dilemma as I do hunt open areas but as you just described to root out some of those birds in trees or thick tall bamboo areas along the rivers and or ditches a pointer is going to look at you as to say..um you go in there 

[AspenBud]

Ok all turning to forums and opinions...  Trying to decide if want another Lab or a GSP for next puppy

Was all but 100% sure I was going to get a GSP for my next dog, but have been reconsidering a little lately.  Love my labs and have a pointing lab now and nothing beats watching a dog lock up on point, BUT alot of hunting in Eastern WA for pheasants is in the thick stuff and just wondering if a good flusher would be better.  I only hunt for upland mostly pheasants with some quail and Huns as seen when out and about.  I usually go to a reserve for the border 2 months of the season and then during Nov, Dec hunt all wild birds.  Also, want to start making a trip to MT each year to hunt the areas there...

So my question is what do other like and why...not trying to turn this into a bash on each dog etc as I love both and they both do very very well.  So really just looking to see others experiences and if they would get a Lab instead of a GSP if they had or vice versa..

Thanks

I am of the opinion that in heavy cover situations the flusher (lab) is going to give you more shot opportunities. Mainly because you can let them root out the birds while you stand/walk in the birds' escape routes (open ground) and take a shot at them as they fly. That applies to grouse and pheasant. That's not to say that pointers can't do a credible job on both, they do. But given how we train pointers in this country to stand still until we the handlers flush the birds you are put in less favorable shooting positions. If we trained pointers as is done in Europe (they flush on command) this would be less of an issue. A lab (or any other flusher for that matter) is also not at a disadvantage among different species of bird. Pointers, all pointers, can be since their game is all about not pressuring a bird into flying. A pointing dog that mainly hunts pheasants will suffer when hunting spookier birds because they will have become used to birds that run and frankly those points will be much closer. A pointing dog that is used to hunting birds that require longer distance points, points that come at first scent, will be at a disadvantage with pheasants that like to run rather than stay still. A lab (or any other flushing dog) doesn't have that problem. Their mission is to find those birds and push them up. Standing still, space between them and the birds, that's all irrelevant with them.

The above said, in more open terrain a pointer is going to be an asset as they can cover more ground than the lab and do so faster.

If you think you might ever chase ducks or geese your options are really down to a lab, chessie, poodle, a spaniel, or one of the "ugly dogs."

Just something for you to chew on.   

Nice write up...thanks

This is exactly my dilemma as I do hunt open areas but as you just described to root out some of those birds in trees or thick tall bamboo areas along the rivers and or ditches a pointer is going to look at you as to say..um you go in there

Honestly, I've seen, and have owned, pointers that will gladly tear themselves up in thick nasty cover. The problem is the training. We teach them to just stand there once they establish a point.

[Ruger]

Agreed...

I have been spoiled I have a pointing lab now and in the fields he will point, in the thick stuff he will go in there just not as hard as a hard charging flushing lab...

[AspenBud]

Agreed...

I have been spoiled I have a pointing lab now and in the fields he will point, in the thick stuff he will go in there just not as hard as a hard charging flushing lab...

Like I said, training is the key. Training pointers to flush birds and drop after the flush is fairly common outside North America. Info on how to do it is probably out there somewhere.

For example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNeeBDkPDPI#action=share

[Dhoey07]

Agreed...

I have been spoiled I have a pointing lab now and in the fields he will point, in the thick stuff he will go in there just not as hard as a hard charging flushing lab...

Like I said, training is the key. Training pointers to flush birds and drop after the flush is fairly common outside North America. Info on how to do it is probably out there somewhere.

For example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNeeBDkPDPI#action=share

That's what I tought my lab to do, although he doesn't hold point for a long amount of time until he tires a bit.  After a couple hours of hunting, he will hold point until I tell him to flush. 

[addicted2hunting]

If all you wanna do is upland have you thought about just a pointer? A good Elhew line pointer would be a killer bet for a solid upland performer. not that a GSP wouldn't...

[wildweeds]

There are times when the things dogs point in the brush really aren't the game being pursued, porkies,skunks and yes even bobcats.My buddys shorthair about 4 years ago pointed outside of a brush patch in montana(he lives there) and he said the dog didn't look right on point, about the time he got within 10 feet the dog jumped in the brush and all heck broke loose, the dog came out of the brush with about 30 pounds of ticked off bobcat on his head,it was a good thing the dog had a shock collar on the cat bit clean through the plastic and pierced the batteries.He said the cat let go and headed one way at warp speed and the dog took off at full speed in the OTHER direction.He was cut/bit and scratched pretty darn good all around his head and neck area.

[addicted2hunting]

There are times when the things dogs point in the brush really aren't the game being pursued, porkies,skunks and yes even bobcats.My buddys shorthair about 4 years ago pointed outside of a brush patch in montana(he lives there) and he said the dog didn't look right on point, about the time he got within 10 feet the dog jumped in the brush and all heck broke loose, the dog came out of the brush with about 30 pounds of ticked off bobcat on his head,it was a good thing the dog had a shock collar on the cat bit clean through the plastic and pierced the batteries.He said the cat let go and headed one way at warp speed and the dog took off at full speed in the OTHER direction.He was cut/bit and scratched pretty darn good all around his head and neck area.

WOW! that would be insane!

[AspenBud]

If all you wanna do is upland have you thought about just a pointer? A good Elhew line pointer would be a killer bet for a solid upland performer. not that a GSP wouldn't...

I wouldn't limit myself to only line bred Elhews but I agree, the breed is hard to beat.

[constructeur]

I have seen GSP work and they are so fun to watch and hunt with...

Sorry I wasn't more clear, I meant to get out and see the actual prospective parents. Within this state there are a number of different breeding programs, with different GSP family lines that will very much affect the dogs temperament, size, range, color, etc.

 I've seen lots of what folks would call the classic shorthair, a couple that were more slow and thorough as you would normally associate with a Griffon, and a couple like my current dog that can best be described as a street walkin' cheeta with a handful of napalm.

You may want that dog. Maybe not. Best to know before hand though 

[addicted2hunting]

If all you wanna do is upland have you thought about just a pointer? A good Elhew line pointer would be a killer bet for a solid upland performer. not that a GSP wouldn't...

I wouldn't limit myself to only line bred Elhews but I agree, the breed is hard to beat.

Oh for sure, I just don't know as many other popular kennels...

[AspenBud]

If all you wanna do is upland have you thought about just a pointer? A good Elhew line pointer would be a killer bet for a solid upland performer. not that a GSP wouldn't...

I wouldn't limit myself to only line bred Elhews but I agree, the breed is hard to beat.

Oh for sure, I just don't know as many other popular kennels...

I'll be honest, I'm to the point now where I look at how many names I recognize, and how many of them had CH or HOF by their name, in the pedigree. If there are less recognized dogs I try to make sure I know something about them.

My newest Pointer is out of several trial lines (HiFive, Elhew, Miller, Rebel, Go Boy, Fiddler, Railway, Pepsi, etc) and to be frank he's one of the easiest dogs I've ever had to train. Or put another way he makes me look good given my work schedule and 3 year old and the limited time and resources I have to put into him.

I don't try to go for strictly All Age breeding however and instead like Shooting Dog stock. But if some AA dogs pop up in the pedigree I don't care. As time goes on I like what I see in dogs with more Miller in them anyhow.

[wildweeds]

After owning an Elhew linebred dog I'd never touch another. To much capitalism of Bob's work with not enough culling and scrutiny in the process. The one I had was a veterinarians dream. Monthly visits for multiple genetic flaws.

[Ruger]

Only looking at a Lab or GSP...