Lead shot ban in WA for Upland birds, small game, turkeys?!

[Dave Workman]

I believe the idea is to dry up the ammunition supply. And to make hunting more difficult.

[popeshawnpaul]

Not everything is an attack on hunting.  I would encourage all to read the latest Fair Chase magazine put out by Boone and Crockett.  It details lead and the effects in the condor population.  There is a lot of good scientific data that shows lead is harmful to the condor and limiting their population.  These studies are from agencies and people that support hunting and depend on hunting revenue to survive.  The condor is expanding up into CA, NV, and UT.  They have a program to phase out lead down there and it has helped substantially.

It seemed odd to me how they were getting this lead exposure.  They explained that the gut piles we leave behind are eaten by condor or other animals.  Because lead expands and fragments into tiny pieces, it stays with the gut pile even if you take the deer meat.  If the deer isn't recovered, the chance for lead poisoning is even greater.  This same issue occurs in upland game throughout the region. 

I don't see anything wrong with being good stewards of the wildlife and making changes that are scientifically proven to help certain species.  The comment that our raptor population is doing fine ignores the issue.  We don't need to wait until species are endangered to act in the best interest for them.  There are good non-lead alternatives that make lead not necessary.  Some cost a bit more but so did unleaded gasoline...  Yet we made the change.  You can still hunt those animals with a Barnes or other non-lead bullet. 

Now, the question becomes how does lead affect our WA wildlife?  I'm not sure how many studies have been done on WA wildlife and the impacts of lead.  If science shows that our raptors and other species aren't as sensitive to lead as the condor, then we could consider keeping lead.  From what I have seen though, lead does affect our wildlife.  Do we want to put our head in the sand and ignore it or show that we can evolve with complex issues instead of being rigid and claiming that everything is an attack against our gun rights?

[ICEMAN]

The problem with that angle shawn, that "if science shows that our raptors and other species aren't as sensitive to lead as the condor..." is that this is not the way things seem to work. In my opinion, it seems that almost any environmental standard that occurred in California, ends up occurring here. They do it, we end up doing it. California clean air measures, car emission standards, VOC standards...these all seem to originate in the Golden Bear and find their way here, irregardless of what is "good" for us. We end up "accepting" that 'what is a threat to one species must be a threat to all'. Have you ever swallowed lead shot, or lead fragments in wild game?

Secondly, If something is scientifically proven to benefit a tiny bit of anything', environmentalists seldom care to consider the financial costs. Personally I  have well over a thousand dollars invested in lead ammunition. Multiply this times all the guys in this state and you have millions upon millions of dollars of ammunition which may become obsolete. And for what....so the guys in washington state dont put california condors at risk? Doesnt make sense.  I think that the fiscal side of this equation has as much merit as does the environmental side.

[RailRob]

ya wanna know why?? CALIFORNIANS MOVE HERE!!! they F@#$ up everything in this state...GO BACK!!!! Dont want to get me worked up............

[popeshawnpaul]

Have you ever swallowed lead shot, or lead fragments in wild game?...

Secondly, If something is scientifically proven to benefit a tiny bit of anything', environmentalists seldom care to consider the financial costs. Personally I  have well over a thousand dollars invested in lead ammunition. Multiply this times all the guys in this state and you have millions upon millions of dollars of ammunition which may become obsolete. And for what....so the guys in washington state dont put California condors at risk? Doesn't make sense.  I think that the fiscal side of this equation has as much merit as does the environmental side.

No way man.  Humans and most species aren't that sensitive to lead poisoning.  Certain species like condors are. I've chewed on lead bullets and never had any problems.  But I'm not a condor.  (save the lawyer jokes... )

The scientific data in the condor study is really a good scientific study.  It is very complete and definitive.  If there is only a tiny bit of difference, then let's not do it.  In the condor example, it's not a tiny bit of difference.  Lead wiped out the whole species.  The only reason they are even around is from the lead ban down in that area.  There is a direct correlation.  The Fair Chase article is very educational about the subject.  This is a hunting magazine...

They would adopt lead legislation slowly to allow people like you and me to get rid of our lead bullets.  The fact is that many birds in our area continue to have high lead levels despite the lead ban for waterfowl.  I think further studies need to be done to see how they are getting this lead.  I think an outright lead ban right now would be putting the cart before the horse.  However, I'm going to remain open minded about it and see what the research tells us.

[ICEMAN]

Lets just hope that legislators might be open minded. They seem very quick to over react and create legislation which destroys business and slams the individual, as well as turning law abiders, into lawbreakers.

It will take me 30 years to exhaust my lead ammo.......? 

[RailRob]

think about the odds of those dumb brids injesting lead.....come on.........

[rosscrazyelk]

This is what we get when idiots are voted into office who can't see past their paycheck.

[bobcat]

I read on another board that they are transplanting some condors into the Columbia River gorge.

[Curly]

Has anyone heard how the lead ban (SB 5095) hearing went the other day?

[shorthair-on-point]

I can be reasonable and if lead is as bad as they say then lets ban it. To this point the only argument I have heard are people siting "studies". I read a study one time that said 9 out of 10 times studies reflect the outcome desired by the people paying for the study. Example: The tobacco companies had truck loads of studies for decades that said smoking didn't have health risks. 
If lead is such a big problem why aren't they talking about the facts? Where are the numbers of animals that succumb to lead poisoning in WA state every year? What and how many bodies of water have dangerous levels of lead from hunters and fisherman?

[12Gauge]

How would they enforce this law anyways. Will the game warden take one of your shells and cut it open?

Yes they will.  I have had GW's cut my shells because the magnet did not work, I told them it was Bismuth, they think all are criminals, well at least that guy did.

[bobcat]

Did they reimburse you for the cost of that shell when they destroyed it and it wasn't lead?  I'm guessing not.   

[12Gauge]

Did they reimburse you for the cost of that shell when they destroyed it and it wasn't lead?  I'm guessing not.   

That will be the day

[sisu]

Did they reimburse you for the cost of that shell when they destroyed it and it wasn't lead?  I'm guessing not.   

That will be the day

It should be the day. Each non-toxic non-steel shot shell is expensive. Every warden fed or state should carry a reimbursement statement that you can submit at the seasons end.