Hunting/judging mt goat books

[nwhunter]

Anyone have suggestions for any good books for info on hunting mt goats and judging size etc? I'm going to BC this fall on a hunt I've been wanting to do forever  and want to be knowledgeable about what I am doing and not have to completely rely on someone else. I can field judge a 390 bull but a goat with ten inch horns is a whole new thing for me. Tks

[MtnMuley]

No good advice here, but I have a feeling after your wait, once you see that hump and setting, the wait and score will be short lived for the memory you will never forget.

[PlateauNDN]

Horns to the end of the ears is over 7 inches. Have good binos or spotting scope and Billy's have thick horns while nannies have skinny horns.

Look them over good and be patient, you'll know the one you want when you see it. Be mentally prepared as goat country can take its toll physically but the challenge is more mental. If you want read my thread titled "fellowship of the goat" as it will provide a little insight into my adventure. There's other goat stories as good and better so soak it up and prepare as much as possible.

I suggest a stair climber workout of some type with weights to prepare physically and also hiking sticks. I didn't have any but someone else did and I tried them about a bit and there's definitely a big help using them. Best of luck.

[RadSav]

When I was looking before my first hunt I didn't find any books worth a darn.  Best sources I found were past articles available on-line.  Some of the older Pope & Young and Boone & Crockett record books were useful too.  If Boone & Crockett gets their website back up and running there is usually good info there.  Here are a few other articles I found over the years.  Not a lot of judging info, but information none-the-less.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=goathunting.billyid

http://www.bowhunter.com/feature_articles/feature_articles_bw_goat_1008/

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,172074.msg2275291.html#msg2275291

If you have a goat area like I went to you will have no shortage of goats to look at once you are up there.  And since you will have a guide just go ahead and ask a ton of questions.  I found that after the first of October it was very easy to judge Nannies from Billies as the billies big shoulders pop with the increased hair growth and the large black glands start to swell.

I am not going to say I can judge score on the hoof at half a mile away.  But you get a real good feel for what a good billy is and what a fantastic billy is in a short period of time.  It's sort of like seeing a 150 mule deer and trying to decide if he is book quality.  Your excitement is quickly overtaken by the reality he is nice but not all that nice.  But when you see a 180+ muledeer you instantly know that is a great buck and only a crazy person would pass that up! 

I'm not much of a book guy so I go by my gut reaction of what I like and am impressed by.  When I hit that threshold between "Oh that's nice" and "Wholly SHOUT!!!  Look at that guy!" then I know I have found "The One".  My only problem was that I became obsessed with "The One" and chased only him for years.  And come to find out he was one heck of a lot better at staying alive than I was at being a bowhunter.   I passed up a lot of very respectable goats that I would tag in a heart beat today.  I have a lot of stories to tell, but that's not all that comforting when I realize I have no Rocky Mountain Goat on the wall!

If I had realized how fast age would catch up to me and how difficult financing hunts would become with an active partner I would surely have tagged one of the good ones when Old Pisser had given me another slip.  Vengeance is a dangerous thing.

[PlateauNDN]

  I had many in my sights and I almost threw in the towel on just anything, but I mentally kept pushing. In the end, sharing the end with friends on the "1" i wanted with a challenge of being the 1st bow kill was bittersweet.

Mine may not be the biggest but it's the adventure that I will remember and its the story I will tell every chance I get.

You will know the "1" when you see him and don't hesitate,  take him.

[CAMPMEAT]

Isn't a guide supposed to know what a good one is to shoot ?

[Katmai Guy]

Isn't a guide supposed to know what a good one is to shoot ?

I'm like the OP and would like to know what is big and what is not, just to feel like I am contributing to the hunt instead of just being led around like a little kid.
  Also the pessimist in me would like to know that the guide is telling me to shoot a decent animal and not just wanting to get the hunt over and get back to momma and a hot meal.

[RadSav]

Isn't a guide supposed to know what a good one is to shoot ?

You need to be able to express to your guide what you want.  When guiding bear we had spots with BIG bear and we had spots with lots of nice bear.  Depending on the clients goals coming in would delegate how we went about placing them in the right spots to fulfill those goals.  The two spots were often a two hour drive apart.

You don't want to be flown or hike vertical miles of rock cliffs only to find out your in an area with a lot of average goats when what you really wanted was only to tag a book goat.  Where I hunted most in BC those were many miles apart and the preparation for each was drastically different.  Knowing what you are looking for could make a very big difference on your enjoyment and the fulfillment of your expectations.

[nwhunter]

Thanks guys, I agree that hopefully my guide will be topnotch and I can trust his judgement but I don't like to do anything uninformed. When I guide elk hunts its great to look at bulls and talk with hunter about how big he thinks it is and come to an agreement on shooter or not since it is his tag. We are all human and not always right and sometimes the guy with the tag might want to hunt longer than the guy who doesn't.... I will be in shape and am going to give it a try with my bow for a few days. Lots of goats and beautiful country where I am headed , glad I waited and found this outfitter. I will share how it goes when I am done.

[Bushcraft]

I don't have this book yet, but I've heard it's a good primer goats.

http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Color-Winter-Mountain-Observed/dp/0803264216

The book doesn't go into it from what I've heard, but scoring is pretty straightforward. 1) Length, 2) Base diameter significantly larger than the eye, 3) mass that carries well into 2/3rds of the horn.  Like others have said, a big one will definitely stand out if you are able to compare it to other goats nearby.  If its face looks "cute" it is probably a younger billy.  The horns will look out of proportion, making them seem bigger than they actually are, whereas a long roman-nosed horse face with a big wide nostrils and mouth (and general body size) is more indicative of a mature billy.

If score really matters to you, length is important, but girth is critical.  I suspect there were a preponderance of women on the mountain goat scoring committee to determine which attributes were most desirable.   

As an aside, I personally factor in hair length and consider a long-haired chapped-out goat to be highly desirable, at least as much a perhaps more so than just the size of the horns.  They make awesome looking life-size mounts.  To each their own, but I'm not a fan of the freshly shorn summertime look.

Out of curiosity, which outfitter did you book your hunt with and what time of year are you going?

Good luck!

Regards,

Allen
   

[RadSav]

As an aside, I personally factor in hair length and consider a long-haired chapped-out goat to be highly desirable, at least as much a perhaps more so than just the size of the horns.  They make awesome looking life-size mounts.  To each their own, but I'm not a fan of the freshly shorn summertime look.

Absolutely!  I'd take smaller horns in mid October over big horns in early September.  Of course big horns in late October...

[Hairhunter]

 :Hunting The Rocky Mountain Goat: by Duncan Gilchrist, is one of the best Goat books ever written.Duncan has been dead quite a few years now,and I don't know if the book is still in print

[Boss .300 winmag]

http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Rocky-Mountain-Duncan-Gilchrist/dp/0933126360

Little spendy but their out there.

[time2hunt]

As an aside, I personally factor in hair length and consider a long-haired chapped-out goat to be highly desirable, at least as much a perhaps more so than just the size of the horns.  They make awesome looking life-size mounts.  To each their own, but I'm not a fan of the freshly shorn summertime look.

Absolutely!  I'd take smaller horns in mid October over big horns in early September.  Of course big horns in late October...

[time2hunt]

http://www.dlrgc.ca/AlaskaGoatQuiz.pdf


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[nwhunter]

I don't have this book yet, but I've heard it's a good primer goats.

http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Color-Winter-Mountain-Observed/dp/0803264216

The book doesn't go into it from what I've heard, but scoring is pretty straightforward. 1) Length, 2) Base diameter significantly larger than the eye, 3) mass that carries well into 2/3rds of the horn.  Like others have said, a big one will definitely stand out if you are able to compare it to other goats nearby.  If its face looks "cute" it is probably a younger billy.  The horns will look out of proportion, making them seem bigger than they actually are, whereas a long roman-nosed horse face with a big wide nostrils and mouth (and general body size) is more indicative of a mature billy.

If score really matters to you, length is important, but girth is critical.  I suspect there were a preponderance of women on the mountain goat scoring committee to determine which attributes were most desirable.   

As an aside, I personally factor in hair length and consider a long-haired chapped-out goat to be highly desirable, at least as much a perhaps more so than just the size of the horns.  They make awesome looking life-size mounts.  To each their own, but I'm not a fan of the freshly shorn summertime look.

Out of curiosity, which outfitter did you book your hunt with and what time of year are you going?

Good luck!

Regards,

Allen
   

I am going first of October with Wildcoast Outfitters. Met him in Portland this spring. Great guy thats getting started after taking over an outfit he guided for. On a side note Allen I think I sat at your table last year at SCI in Seatac I was with Mike C.

[nwhunter]

Thats a beautiful mount time2hunt. I picked the Oct date because I wanted a long haired goat. After being obsessed with elk for years and chasing bulls pushing 400 inches for years and now going after an animal with ten inch horns seems crazy but the terrain they live in and the long white hair has them at top of my bucket list for the last several years. Got to do it before the knees go out.

[Bushcraft]

I don't have this book yet, but I've heard it's a good primer goats.

http://www.amazon.com/Beast-Color-Winter-Mountain-Observed/dp/0803264216

The book doesn't go into it from what I've heard, but scoring is pretty straightforward. 1) Length, 2) Base diameter significantly larger than the eye, 3) mass that carries well into 2/3rds of the horn.  Like others have said, a big one will definitely stand out if you are able to compare it to other goats nearby.  If its face looks "cute" it is probably a younger billy.  The horns will look out of proportion, making them seem bigger than they actually are, whereas a long roman-nosed horse face with a big wide nostrils and mouth (and general body size) is more indicative of a mature billy.

If score really matters to you, length is important, but girth is critical.  I suspect there were a preponderance of women on the mountain goat scoring committee to determine which attributes were most desirable.   

As an aside, I personally factor in hair length and consider a long-haired chapped-out goat to be highly desirable, at least as much a perhaps more so than just the size of the horns.  They make awesome looking life-size mounts.  To each their own, but I'm not a fan of the freshly shorn summertime look.

Out of curiosity, which outfitter did you book your hunt with and what time of year are you going?

Good luck!

Regards,

Allen
   

I am going first of October with Wildcoast Outfitters. Met him in Portland this spring. Great guy thats getting started after taking over an outfit he guided for. On a side note Allen I think I sat at your table last year at SCI in Seatac I was with Mike C.

NWHunter,

Glad to hear you are a fellow supporter of SCI!  You are probably thinking of the other guy in the chapter that shares my name, but he spells his A-l-a-i-n.  I was the president of the Northwest Chapter at the time and up on stage working hard to get everyone in attendance to empty their pockets for The Cause. 

Good luck with your goat hunt!  Be sure and take plenty of pictures.

Allen

[USMC86]

I couldn't find anything to read that prepared me for the reality of my Alaska goat hunt.  Even with a really good spotting scope, and getting really close, it seems nearly impossible to score a billy standing by himself.  The males are easy to distinguish from the females due to size, color (they seem bigger and nastier looking) and the bases seem much heavier.  As it was, I shot a goat that my guide and I agreed was a mature billy and he turned out much better than we had hoped.  Booked Awards and missed All Time due to a chipped tip....but we honestly had no clue.

If I were to do it again, I'd go where you are going....seems like the average in BC is much bigger than most places.  I'd plan the hunt to make sure that the hide is optimal, as mine was "in-between" and not quite the long pelts that make these animals so special.  I'd get in much better shape than I am now...seemed like it was all uphill, all day.  And finally, I'd rely heavily on my guide- they look at them all the time and will have a good idea of what they are looking at.  I don't think they will be able to state with a certainty what the score will be, but they'll be able to ballpark.  You'll likely be dealing with wind and distance and animal movement, which will make estimating the size pretty tough through a spotting scope.  Good luck to you, have a blast and share some pics when you come back.

[2MANY]

Oh My.