Water Rights

[Special T]

Ive decided to start this thread because it affects everything we do. Fishing, gardening, building a home or cabin. Water is the next big issue that will affect our lives. (kind of inspired by some fishing threads)

Man Gets Prison Sentence For Collecting Rainwater On His Property
Collecting rainwater on your own property in the U.S. can now lead to jail time, as has been proven by a man from Oregon who was sentenced to prison for doing just that.  Who owns the rain? The US government, apparently.

Not so long ago, it was common practice across much of the world to collect rainwater into man made wells on your property to use for farming, irrigation and having fresh clean water.  It was just as common as canning your own food, having knowledge of at least some basic survival skills, and being self-sufficient.

It wasn’t even that many generations ago that all of this was common practice – people born before WWII were pretty adept at these skills, as they were a necessity to survival.  One of the main (and easiest) ways to ensure survival was to collecting rainwater on your own property.  The practical uses for storing and collecting rainwater are numerous and many people across the world in rural areas still do it today for all of the reasons listed above.  However, over the past few years, laws making the collection of rainwater illegal have been causing an uproar across the US.

Now, a man from Grey Point, Oregon has been sentenced to thirty days in prison for storing collected rainwater on his very own property – and the public is outraged.
(more to the story)   http://yournewswire.com/man-gets-prison-sentence-for-collecting-rainwater-on-his-own-property/

[Magnum_Willys]

Internet hype  . The guy built multiple dams on streams through his property that flow into the city of medfords water source.  Uh hello ?  He wasnt collecting rain off his roof. 

[REHJWA]

Miss leading article, there is a huge difference between diverting streams and run off then "collecting rain water". It also did not sound like his were your average stock ponds either. They sound like damns across streams. Water like mineral rights need to be included on the title....

[Special T]

Well a few years back they tried to make rain water collection from roofs in Snohomish county illegal. Additionally im pretty sure it wasnt a creek he was damming up but a draw that had seasonal flow. Part of my reason for creating this thread is to show the contradictions  in law and the infringement on property rights that is happening.

Chapter 90.03 RCW    WATER CODE
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=90.03

DOE (Department of Ecoclogy) study and report to the legislature in 09 on water rightswith share holders including tribes.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/ReportsToTheLegislature/Home/GetPDF?fileName=0911027_a507348d-b723-479c-a07a-60591dee4876.pdf

[Special T]

perhaps this article is a little better at describing the situation.
http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/blogs/oregon-man-in-possession-of-13-million-gallons-of-illicit-rainwater

It is also similar to a previous issue in Wy where a man had made stock ponds and got into trouble with the EPA
http://legalnewsline.com/stories/510643529-epa-threatens-20-million-fine-on-wyoming-man-who-built-a-pond-on-his-farm

Perhaps the guy in oregon isnt the perfect case but i use it to illustrate a point. Water rights are huge and what you think may be legal or not need clarification.

[Magnum_Willys]

Creating stock ponds that ultimately drain to public water sources is not good. 

[Special T]

How can impeding water flow bad? Ok so the first example I gave is a bad one but still... isnt more water in the ground good as well? The "storage" of water is either on the surface or in the dirt. If you are like most people your runn off from your neighborhood runs into a settling pond to inject it into the ground water. Why? To filter it a d slow its progression down hill to even out surges in waterflow. I will try and find the article tonight but in California they are diverting some flood waters to try and recharge aquifers.

[Curly]

Rainwater Harvesting is one method in many jurisdiction's stormwater manuals for handling roof runoff.....such as City of Tacoma, Pierce Co, WA State DOE, etc.

It's considered an LID technique, which is becoming more popular.

Below is an excerpt from the 2015 Pierce Co stormwater manual.

"Roof rainwater collection systems are designed to collect stormwater runoff from nonpolluting surfaces (typically roofs), and to make use of the collected water. Reuse of the
runoff can be for irrigation, potable, and non-potable uses, but requires different levels of storage and water quality treatment depending on the intended use. Rainwater collection
systems have been designed and installed in many locations throughout the northwest, including Pacific Plaza in Tacoma, and the Bullitt Center in Seattle. The most abundant
use of water collection and reuse systems in the northwest has been on some of the island communities where potable water is scarce. In these cases, the systems have been sized
and designed to capture all rooftop runoff with adequate treatment for reuse as a potable water source. Rainwater collection and reuse systems are also commonly referred to as
“rainfall catchment” and “rainwater harvesting” systems.
"

here are a couple of pics from the Wa State DOE LID manual:

[Special T]

I would add that roof water from asphalt roofs 3 tab and others is only suitable for lawn watering since it has benzine in and leaches into the water. It could be useful in flushing toilets. Shake and metal roofs are best for vegetable and drinking.

[Gopher]

Good thought.

[Special T]

Well ill have to take a look at the watershed he is in and the details.

The watershed I live in "the skagit river watershed" is not in short supply of water and it wouldnt hurt if people could put wells on thier property or have a stock pond. 45"+of rain a year is a fair bit yet we are in a fight with the swinomish that doesnt allow people to use wells they had already put in.

Water will be the way gov controlls private property in the future... so my point is everyone should brush up on it now because what ever "rights" you think you may have now may not be what they are in the future.

[csaaphill]

How can impeding water flow bad? Ok so the first example I gave is a bad one but still... isnt more water in the ground good as well? The "storage" of water is either on the surface or in the dirt. If you are like most people your runn off from your neighborhood runs into a settling pond to inject it into the ground water. Why? To filter it a d slow its progression down hill to even out surges in waterflow. I will try and find the article tonight but in California they are diverting some flood waters to try and recharge aquifers.

If I remember right he wasn't actually diverting water as much as the pro big brother people want to lead us to believe, he used it for fires when the summer came around as well.
I've followed this story a bit and it's not as bad as it sounds.
especially since it does say they originally approved his permits, which I don't believe in, or shouldn't need permits. But the reservoir had been there for almost 40 years, or 37 years so...

[csaaphill]

How can impeding water flow bad? Ok so the first example I gave is a bad one but still... isnt more water in the ground good as well? The "storage" of water is either on the surface or in the dirt. If you are like most people your runn off from your neighborhood runs into a settling pond to inject it into the ground water. Why? To filter it a d slow its progression down hill to even out surges in waterflow. I will try and find the article tonight but in California they are diverting some flood waters to try and recharge aquifers.

I's more about absolute Govt rule over water and land rights.
Seems like we've just seen a dose of BLM and cattle rights just recently in Burns OR too?

[RG]

As of December 2 last year Kittitas County enacted law that severely restricted access to wells and ground water.  If people weren't actively using their well, or at least had an active building permit in hand for construction which would use the water, the county required them to purchase permits, at the cost of thousands, and wifi meters to put on their wells.  Even those pieces of property with previously permitted wells installed were not allowed to use these wells without paying up. 

My understanding is the Washington State Department of Ecology sneaked over the pass and decided to force this issue in the county against the wishes of the residents of the county.  The law was very quietly passed and most property owners who have land they intended to build on in the future, even those who got county well permits and even drilled their wells, cannot access water on their land.  Access they paid for already was taken away.

The irritating thing here is, the state DOE sneaked this through by putting tremendous pressure on the county government and the whole thing was done behind closed doors and enacted into law.  It's another sneaky way to control what citizens do on their own land.  I'm sad to say Kittitas County is beginning to look like it's becoming Bellevue east.  The King County rules are sneaking over the pass.

[timberghost72]

perhaps this article is a little better at describing the situation.
http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/blogs/oregon-man-in-possession-of-13-million-gallons-of-illicit-rainwater

It is also similar to a previous issue in Wy where a man had made stock ponds and got into trouble with the EPA
http://legalnewsline.com/stories/510643529-epa-threatens-20-million-fine-on-wyoming-man-who-built-a-pond-on-his-farm

Perhaps the guy in oregon isnt the perfect case but i use it to illustrate a point. Water rights are huge and what you think may be legal or not need clarification.

I was just reading this thread this morning then saw this article on Fox News a few minutes ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/10/wyoming-welder-facing-16m-in-fines-beats-epa-in-battle-over-stock-pond.html