Hunter facing charges after death of beloved elk named Bullwinkle

[huntnphool]

I'm a little late to the game but wasn't this a high fence hunt?

 No

OK different bull then. 

Coulda swore I've seen that image somewhere and was trying to place it.  I read a thread here a few years back with a bull on a road like that and it was a high fence hunt.   

 Legit hunt (auction tag) legit bull!

[JDHasty]

Now I'm confused, the pics are not of the same bull?!!? The last pic has an atypical tin, a big one at that!

The last pic is a different bull from a different auction tag.

Keep fighting the good fight JD! 

What I post as truth are now validated.  What I said was coming has given me confidence that my intuitions were correct.  I am still skeptical that there exculpatory evidence.  But any "fight" I had is over.  The evidence will decide guilt or innocence.  I am skeptical of any exculpatory evidence, but it is that will decide guilt or innocence, if this goes to trial, and I have said such all along:  If there is probable cause then I encourage vigorous prosecution.  Charges filed implies probable cause, let's give me reason to not acquit before you commit me to a certain outcome.  Please.

Up to this point I am satisfied that justice has been done.  I am skeptical, but my mind is open to whether there was permission given.   That being said:  Knowing what I know, legalities aside, this simply was not going to end well.   

[kentrek]

The ol bull was smart enough to stay in an area not many hunt...same logic as any of the old bulls I've ever killed...distance into the wilderness is irrelevant to how awesome a particular animal is....this was a impressive critter...maybe not by a measure of evasiveness,as he knew he was safe... but The bull lived to a pretty decent age...

Its a impressive animal

The hunt not so much

[Tbar]

Now I'm confused, the pics are not of the same bull?!!? The last pic has an atypical tin, a big one at that!

The last pic is a different bull from a different auction tag.

Keep fighting the good fight JD! 

What I post as truth are now validated.  What I said was coming has given me confidence that my intuitions were correct.  I am still skeptical that there exculpatory evidence.  But any "fight" I had is over.  The evidence will decide guilt or innocence.  I am skeptical of any exculpatory evidence, but it is that will decide guilt or innocence, if this goes to trial, and I have said such all along:  If there is probable cause then I encourage vigorous prosecution.  Charges filed implies probable cause, let's give me reason to not acquit before you commit me to a certain outcome.  Please.

Up to this point I am satisfied that justice has been done.  I am skeptical, but my mind is open to whether there was permission given.   That being said:  Knowing what I know, legalities aside, this simply was not going to end well.   

Then why not let the cards fall where they may?  Why keep harassing and repeating yourself?

[JDHasty]

Now I'm confused, the pics are not of the same bull?!!? The last pic has an atypical tin, a big one at that!

The last pic is a different bull from a different auction tag.

Keep fighting the good fight JD! 

What I post as truth are now validated.  What I said was coming has given me confidence that my intuitions were correct.  I am still skeptical that there exculpatory evidence.  But any "fight" I had is over.  The evidence will decide guilt or innocence.  I am skeptical of any exculpatory evidence, but it is that will decide guilt or innocence, if this goes to trial, and I have said such all along:  If there is probable cause then I encourage vigorous prosecution.  Charges filed implies probable cause, let's give me reason to not acquit before you commit me to a certain outcome.  Please.

Up to this point I am satisfied that justice has been done.  I am skeptical, but my mind is open to whether there was permission given.   That being said:  Knowing what I know, legalities aside, this simply was not going to end well.   

Then why not let the cards fall where they may?  Why keep harassing and repeating yourself?

I stopped by the gun club after work yesterday just to take a shot or two with a rifle that the scope had come loose on and was asked about what I have posted and ended up chatting with two guys I know about this and was on my mind when I got home. 

The discussion we had revolved around how none of us could fathom how anybody could see a scenario in which killing this elk was worth the risk of potential, actually near certainty of eventual, negative consequences.

You do have a point though. 
 

[724wd]

I'm with you right up until this last bit, JD.  It's not always about how steep and deep you go for an animal.  What makes a trophy for you could be vastly different for me.  One of my favorite deer was shot just 30 yards from my dad's house.  I waited less than 8 minutes for it to come into the pasture.  It was the absolute easiest hunt I've even done.  Why is it my favorite?  because it was the first time my daughter was with me when i killed a deer.  We'd hunted a lot but never killed a deer until that day.  She was 5.  it was a reward of sorts, for her spending the whole previous year in the blind and still hunting with me with no success.  He was just a little velvet 3 point, but he's a trophy to me and my daughter.  His antlers are above her bed as we speak. 

So the ease of the hunt is not the issue I have with this scenario.  The man shot the animal in a closed unit.  End of story.  He should face the same punishment any of us would had we done the same thing.  How comfortable the elk was has no bearing on the case for me, only that Mr. Reichert broke the law, and likely willfully!  THAT'S why it upsets me.

[kiticaashunter]

Now I'm confused, the pics are not of the same bull?!!? The last pic has an atypical tin, a big one at that!

Read the text in the post.

The photos make it even more clear that this individual was not in any way going to ever show up in the field as a fair chase trophy elk. 

He is what he lived his life out as, a steer with bigger than normal elk antlers. 

This guy never fought for anything, much less keeping a nimrod from putting a bullet into his ribs. 

He lucked out when he was a spike.  There is no more glory in killing him with a muzzle loader that there is in holding the bolt gun in a feed bolt operation. 

No one goes home after converting a steer into tomorrow's offering at Whole Foods than they do when they send wieners off to Hormel.   For God's sake, let us put shooting a bull in a hay meadow into perspective. 

He never was a hunting trophy  and he never will be.  His place in Boone & Crocket holds no more significance than does a monster steer. 

He is, and never was going to be a "hunting trophy." 

The point I am trying to make, although I admit, clumsily, is that so log as B&C and others recognize a "steer with  big elk antlers," there will be a population that wants to be recognized as a "hunter among hunters" who took it as a personal challenge.... when it was nothing of the sort. 

What to do?  I really don't care, one mature bull is no more significant than another mature herd bull, in my esteem.  What matters is the effort and dedication.  I know the what criteria I use to evaluate a hunter/trophy.  But that is a pretty subjective measure and while it works for me... there will always be those who idolize a hunter by how big in inches of horn. 

But I digress, what ever gave anybody the notion that this would end well?  By that I mean provide any value to a hunting career that was worth the risk of throwing every thing that went before that was of value away.

So that isnt and won't ever be a trophy,  but the other field/front yard bull killed with bait nearby is a trophy?

[kiticaashunter]

Here is the bull I was referring to.




(photo removed at owner request)

[Bullkllr]

Whether it's a "trophy" or not is purely an opinion and I do not see how it matters.

Legality, on the other hand, should be based on the facts and imo does matter.

[bearpaw]

I personally don't see any value of keeping this open.  The same people keep repeating the same "facts", same theories as to why this happened, theories on what was going through peoples minds, and even speculating on the mental health of the folks involved. 

However, money is to be made by internet page views, and this topic, along with other useless threads like "Bigfoot", "Word Association Game" and "Chain Reaction Game", all generate consistent numbers of views, and money.  I can't blame anyone for keeping them going, despite their uselessness. 

I normally agree with you on most everything, Dave...but I gotta disagree on this one. I don't see a problem with a few threads where folks are having a good time and not starting trouble or endlessly complaining about things. The last 3 threads you mentioned are the ones I'm referring to. This isn't exactly a cash cow for anyone. What I mean by that is I'm pretty sure this forum barely makes enough money as it stands for Dale to not have to pay out of pocket to keep it up and running.

I'm quite sure that nobody is getting rich off of this site, but the truth is that these threads do generate clicks, views, and responses that at least help the site break even financially.  I don't blame anyone at all.  I personally don't look at the three threads I mentioned after I checked them out for the first time.  Sure, people are having fun, but I personally don't see any value or entertainment in the three threads I mentioned. 

As far as this topic, there have been LOTS of warnings (certainly more than a dozen), no real useful dialogue, and a few other threads shut down due to the risk of lawsuits.  Why keep this one alive?  It's been beaten to death, is riskier than other topics, and probably takes a LOT of time to moderate, with nothing of value coming out of it.

Why keep it alive despite all this?  The reason is simple, it helps to generate income for the site, and I don't blame anyone for that.  Without 70+ pages, thousands of views, the site may be losing money instead of breaking even.  Things always get down to money, and when the risk of losing money through legal action becomes greater than the benefit of clicks, this thread will be shut down and another one started.  That's business.  I can't believe that the reason this thread remains open is out of the goodness of the owner to provide a place for frustrated hunters to vent or be entertained.  This site is not a social program, it's here to provide some value to the owner.  Always.

DaveMonti if the sole purpose of this forum was to make money you would see all kinds of irrelevent advertising plus advertising between comments like you see on many other forums. I am propositioned monthly and sometimes weekly by ad agencies who want to clutter this forum with junk advertising. Perhaps I am foolish, but I have chosen to keep this forum different than those others. For the most part advertising and donations pay the bills and allows us to award prizes in the various contests. Many members enjoy the contests, if you do not like the contests then put the "Contests" board on "Ignore" here: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=ignoreboards

The goal for this forum is to be as quoted from the front page "A Pacific Northwest Hunting and Outdoors Resource Site". If we remove topics that hunters wish to talk about then we aren't fulfilling that goal. We do try to keep it family friendly so that the site is viewable by youth as well, it is important that we encourage youth participation in our sport and that can start on the internet.

Occasionally this forum (an internet service provider) is threatened with a lawsuit due to comments made by members (individual publishers). In most cases we suggest that the person who feels they have been slandered take up the issue with the person who published the claimed slanderous material. On occasion when requested H-W has removed potentially slanderous comments and/or topics. Courts have ruled that generally ISP's are not responsible for content submitted by publishers. It should be noted that if comments are untruthful and damages can be proven to the court, the court may award compensation to the damaged party, therefore, it is advised that members only publish factual comments.

Despite our requests to keep comments factual in previous topics regarding this issue, those topics contained so many questionable comments that the entire topics were eventually removed due to the threat of legal action. This topic is based on a published newspaper story, to my knowledge there is no reason to remove this topic, but questionable comments brought to our attention may be removed.

This topic has resulted in another version of the story being presented, there are always at least two sides to every story. Now it appears questionable if some previous claims were true? People's reputations could/may have been affected, it's only fair that all persons be allowed to tell their side of the story, the public should hear all sides of the story, and the truth should be known to all, therefore H-W will attempt to keep this topic available to the public.

[JDHasty]

I'm with you right up until this last bit, JD.  It's not always about how steep and deep you go for an animal.  What makes a trophy for you could be vastly different for me.  One of my favorite deer was shot just 30 yards from my dad's house.  I waited less than 8 minutes for it to come into the pasture.  It was the absolute easiest hunt I've even done.  Why is it my favorite?  because it was the first time my daughter was with me when i killed a deer.  We'd hunted a lot but never killed a deer until that day.  She was 5.  it was a reward of sorts, for her spending the whole previous year in the blind and still hunting with me with no success.  He was just a little velvet 3 point, but he's a trophy to me and my daughter.  His antlers are above her bed as we speak. 

So the ease of the hunt is not the issue I have with this scenario.  The man shot the animal in a closed unit.  End of story.  He should face the same punishment any of us would had we done the same thing.  How comfortable the elk was has no bearing on the case for me, only that Mr. Reichert broke the law, and likely willfully!  THAT'S why it upsets me.

Ya' know something.  You are absolutely right.  I was more than a little aggravated at the name calling etc. and said what I said on that topic as a way of slapping back. 

I was wrong to have posted that.   

[coachcw]

Like Dale said two sides to every story , The shooter has had every opportunity to come on here and defend  his side ?

[Dan-o]

Why would he want to?

Even if he's innocent, this crowd would be all over him.

There's no upside to him coming on here.

[Dan-o]

And I don't know the guy from Adam, nor do I have any reliable 4th hand info.
Heck of a bull, though.   A true monster.

[CAMPMEAT]

So many people on these types of forums, say that the hunters get a blackeye for killing a big bull, or whatever huge animal that was killed. To me, it's the very rich, thumbing their noses at everybody because the can.... It's not the hunters, in my mind, that get the blackeye. It's the rich who think they can buy anything and get away with it. I mean, why does the media even have to mention the guy is a multi-millionaire ? Just to get a rise out of the reading public.