Hunter facing charges after death of beloved elk named Bullwinkle

[teanawayslayer]

Depending on the date when this "hunt" occurred, there is a antlerless hunt in that unit mid November until mid December. You could the WDFW office and say: I'm elk hunting and I'm not sure if I can hunt with a mod rifle or not, can you help me out? Response: Where are you? I'll check and call you back. Ring: You can hunt there but it's a firearms restricted area, so shotgun, muzzle loader or bow. Response: Thanks!

Thing is the other elk that was shot in a "yard" was legal. This elk was not, ever! Oh yea, it was shot in a yard too!

Mr. Grant knew the exact bull that was was going to be taken. There was no trickery or word's twisted  in this case. At the time he gave gave the good to go he was up for promotion. Since then he has gotten it and tried hard to distance himself from this. He is an honest guy and will tell the truth on the stand. And that will be that he double checked to make sure it was all good.

im glad you cleared this issue up for us.

[Curly]

I still have a question even though most has been cleared up by now.  Didn't wdfw investigate the case and then hand it over to the county, and recommend prosecution? I would have thought that if Mr Grant gave permission, then the case would have been dropped?  Is it simply because Grant had no authority legally to give the OK?

If permission was really given like they say, then I don't see why he would be found guilty....but then I also don't see why he would even be charged if permission were given?

[Branden]

I'm not going to comment on the legalities of it because I was not there nor the one that got supposed permission to hunt that area.

I do have a problem though with the part about how it's bad to shoot an animal in a field. Zero difference then shooting a cat out of a tree. Neither one takes any skill yet 99% of the people on this site would jump at the chance to shoot a lion in a tree. The first thread on this issue was started because guys were saying it wasn't much of a hunt. Not that it was illegal. Then that started after a page or two.

So for the guys that are saying it's not hunting get off your high horse.

You do a lot of hound hunting Brandon??

oooo you beat me to it!

he likely has never cougar hunted....

I've been lucky enough to do many different hunts, including hunts in several other countries, cougar hunting is still my favorite hunt. Some of the best cougar hunts have ended by taking photos and leaving the cat in the tree! The most rewarding part is watching the young hounds learn and develop into experienced lion hounds. Almost anyone can become successful in many types of hunting, but to be a top notch hound hunter requires incredible dedication by the hunter and a very sharp learning curve. After all the time and work to get good at hound hunting, you can take your dogs to field, search for days and sometimes weeks to find a good track, you and your dogs can experience the thrill of the hunt, hopefully you catch the cat and get photos of the hunted, and then you leave the hunted animal unharmed in the wild after experiencing the hunt of lifetime. Hunting really can't get any better than that!

For those that choose to notch a cougar tag you then have some of the best meat in the woods!

I've actually shot 4 lions in Washington. All without hounds. So yes I've hunted cats before.

Let's say I was rich like some hunters are and a cat is on my bucket list. I hire the best outfitter I can find. Wait by the phone for a call once they get good snow in the area I'm hunting.

Fly in, ride out with an outfitter and cut tracks right away. Get lucky and the cat is treed after a few minutes cause it had a kill next to the road. Hike the 200 yards off the road and shoot it out of the tree. Get my trophy pictures of me with my cat.

Yes not all cat hunts are like that. But some are that easy. And some are way more physical. But at the end of the day most of the cats that get killed take absolutely zero skill from the guys doing the shooting. They pay money to a guy that trains dogs to tree animals. They follow the dogs and shoot an animal out of a tree. Absolutely zero skill on the shooters part. So you have a very good dog trainer, and a guy that pays money to shoot an animal out of a tree, and the actually hunters are the dogs.

How about a guided whitetail hunt with bait? You pay the money, ride out to the blind on the ATV. Wait for the feeder to kick on. Once it does here come the deer and bam you just killed a trophy whitetail. Again zero skill involved. Zero effort involved.

I was more or less correct, you have never cougar hunted with hounds. Instead you have conjured up "how you think it's unethical" in your mind.

Hooray, you are a stud hunter, you killed 4 lions without hounds, that must make everyone who wants to hunt with hounds unethical! I bet you even donated to HSUS so they could ban bear baiting and hound hunting.

FYI, you are nobody special, I know lots of hunters who have killed cougar without dogs, hundreds are killed every year in WA without dogs, all you have to do is follow the tracks until you see the cat and shoot it, anyone can do that, it's the easy way out, you didn't go to all the effort training hounds and doing it right. You simply walked out in the woods and shot those cats, pathetic to say the least. maybe you were even just road hunting and blasted one using your truck hood for a rest. Maybe you shot one through your bedroom window out of your back yard. Worse yet, you may have baited one in or you may have really stooped low and shot one of those cats when it came in to finish eating the deer it worked so hard to kill so it could merely survive! How disgusting!

It's obvious to me you are the moral compass of hunters, you know how it should be done, we should all be like you or we should not hunt, we are all pathetic.
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Well I'm very sorry for having to turn the table on you with those disgusting remarks. 

I just wanted to show you how prejudice and narrow minded you are being. As hunters we should all support each other in all legal pursuits of hunting. It's specifically these narrow minded tactics that continue to cause the erosion of hunting. Please see the phrase in the bottom of this post!

"Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!"

I believe you have my position wrong and I don't even care that you tried to insult me. I only tried to point out to the guys saying this elk that was killed wasn't hunted was actually hunted even though it didn't take a lot of effort or skill just like some other hunts. 

There are a ton of what I consider "easy hunts" yet I still call it hunting because unlike what you got from my post I don't care how other people hunt or think my way is above others ways of hunting.

And as for hunting with dogs my opinion will not change. A good guide could easily get my wife who has never hunted before a nice cat with hounds. It doesn't take a skilled hunter to shoot an animal out of a tree. It takes a good dog trainer to train the dogs, and a couple of good dogs.

That doesn't mean I think it should not be allowed. It's the best way to manage cats so it should be legal.

Regards, Branden

[JDHasty]

I have known that reporters have  a reporter has been takling to and asking questions of local Residents at least one local resident since early this year and I recognized by the nature of the questions that were being asked how the story was being developed. e.g. into another "Cecil" story. 

I keep asking:  What ever gave anyone the notion that this was going to end well? 

Irrespective of whether charges had been filed or not this story was already going to end up in the news.  There were more than a couple local residents who were absolutely outraged about the shooting of this particular elk in the location he was taken and btw these people are not what anyone would recognize as "bunny huggers."

The thing that really ticks me off is that this incident will be exploited in an attempt to shame all hunters even though the fact of the matter is that not one hunter outside of the individuals involved had any responsibility what so ever for deciding to target this animal. 

From the very beginning this was never going to end well.  Stevie Wonder could see that.  Had this bull moved up into Shnebley Canyon and been taken there, people would have cared, but they would not be outraged.

[bearpaw]

I'm not going to comment on the legalities of it because I was not there nor the one that got supposed permission to hunt that area.

I do have a problem though with the part about how it's bad to shoot an animal in a field. Zero difference then shooting a cat out of a tree. Neither one takes any skill yet 99% of the people on this site would jump at the chance to shoot a lion in a tree. The first thread on this issue was started because guys were saying it wasn't much of a hunt. Not that it was illegal. Then that started after a page or two.

So for the guys that are saying it's not hunting get off your high horse.

You do a lot of hound hunting Brandon??

oooo you beat me to it!

he likely has never cougar hunted....

I've been lucky enough to do many different hunts, including hunts in several other countries, cougar hunting is still my favorite hunt. Some of the best cougar hunts have ended by taking photos and leaving the cat in the tree! The most rewarding part is watching the young hounds learn and develop into experienced lion hounds. Almost anyone can become successful in many types of hunting, but to be a top notch hound hunter requires incredible dedication by the hunter and a very sharp learning curve. After all the time and work to get good at hound hunting, you can take your dogs to field, search for days and sometimes weeks to find a good track, you and your dogs can experience the thrill of the hunt, hopefully you catch the cat and get photos of the hunted, and then you leave the hunted animal unharmed in the wild after experiencing the hunt of lifetime. Hunting really can't get any better than that!

For those that choose to notch a cougar tag you then have some of the best meat in the woods!

I've actually shot 4 lions in Washington. All without hounds. So yes I've hunted cats before.

Let's say I was rich like some hunters are and a cat is on my bucket list. I hire the best outfitter I can find. Wait by the phone for a call once they get good snow in the area I'm hunting.

Fly in, ride out with an outfitter and cut tracks right away. Get lucky and the cat is treed after a few minutes cause it had a kill next to the road. Hike the 200 yards off the road and shoot it out of the tree. Get my trophy pictures of me with my cat.

Yes not all cat hunts are like that. But some are that easy. And some are way more physical. But at the end of the day most of the cats that get killed take absolutely zero skill from the guys doing the shooting. They pay money to a guy that trains dogs to tree animals. They follow the dogs and shoot an animal out of a tree. Absolutely zero skill on the shooters part. So you have a very good dog trainer, and a guy that pays money to shoot an animal out of a tree, and the actually hunters are the dogs.

How about a guided whitetail hunt with bait? You pay the money, ride out to the blind on the ATV. Wait for the feeder to kick on. Once it does here come the deer and bam you just killed a trophy whitetail. Again zero skill involved. Zero effort involved.

I was more or less correct, you have never cougar hunted with hounds. Instead you have conjured up "how you think it's unethical" in your mind.

Hooray, you are a stud hunter, you killed 4 lions without hounds, that must make everyone who wants to hunt with hounds unethical! I bet you even donated to HSUS so they could ban bear baiting and hound hunting.

FYI, you are nobody special, I know lots of hunters who have killed cougar without dogs, hundreds are killed every year in WA without dogs, all you have to do is follow the tracks until you see the cat and shoot it, anyone can do that, it's the easy way out, you didn't go to all the effort training hounds and doing it right. You simply walked out in the woods and shot those cats, pathetic to say the least. maybe you were even just road hunting and blasted one using your truck hood for a rest. Maybe you shot one through your bedroom window out of your back yard. Worse yet, you may have baited one in or you may have really stooped low and shot one of those cats when it came in to finish eating the deer it worked so hard to kill so it could merely survive! How disgusting!

It's obvious to me you are the moral compass of hunters, you know how it should be done, we should all be like you or we should not hunt, we are all pathetic.
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Well I'm very sorry for having to turn the table on you with those disgusting remarks. 

I just wanted to show you how prejudice and narrow minded you are being. As hunters we should all support each other in all legal pursuits of hunting. It's specifically these narrow minded tactics that continue to cause the erosion of hunting. Please see the phrase in the bottom of this post!

"Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!"

I believe you have my position wrong and I don't even care that you tried to insult me. I only tried to point out to the guys saying this elk that was killed wasn't hunted was actually hunted even though it didn't take a lot of effort or skill just like some other hunts. 

There are a ton of what I consider "easy hunts" yet I still call it hunting because unlike what you got from my post I don't care how other people hunt or think my way is above others ways of hunting.

And as for hunting with dogs my opinion will not change. A good guide could easily get my wife who has never hunted before a nice cat with hounds. It doesn't take a skilled hunter to shoot an animal out of a tree. It takes a good dog trainer to train the dogs, and a couple of good dogs.

That doesn't mean I think it should not be allowed. It's the best way to manage cats so it should be legal.

Regards, Branden

It appeared to me that you were putting down hound hunters as being less skilled and anyone else who hunted or might want to hunt with hounds, so I tried to put it in perspective that maybe some people would view just going out and shooting one the easy way without all the effort as the unskilled method of hunting cougar. Those aren't my feelings but I put your comments in perspective, so don't feel insulted!

I think it's bad for the sport for hunters to act as if they are somehow better than other hunters or that their preferred methods are more skilled or ethical than other hunters or their hunting methods. That attitude is our own worst enemy! If I misunderstood your post I certainly apologize, but that was the way it appeared to me. 

I agree with you that the elk was hunted, even if it was considered to be an unethical hunt by many other hunters and local residents. I am discouraged by the outrage many hunters exhibited before hearing both sides of the story, that's not how this country was founded, but increasingly how people seem to react! 

[Branden]

Yea no biggie. I don't think I would get much enjoyment about telling the story of how I shot a 190" muley over my hood compared to the 150" buck I backpacked in 10 miles and killed with my bow. But both are hunting.

Some hunts take way more effort and skill then others. But the outrage for this bull started not because it was allegedly poached but because it was an easy hunt and not the way these guys would do it. Same as the article states with the "little girl saying it's not hunting".

Sorry to derail this from the judges and prosecutors we have here on Huntwa. You guys can continue labeling this illegal before this guy gets his chance at a trial.

I always thought it was innocent until proven guilty? The law must have changed and I've been to busy to notice. Thanks for helping educate me judges and prosecutors.

Regards, Branden

[fishngamereaper]

Depending on the date when this "hunt" occurred, there is a antlerless hunt in that unit mid November until mid December. You could the WDFW office and say: I'm elk hunting and I'm not sure if I can hunt with a mod rifle or not, can you help me out? Response: Where are you? I'll check and call you back. Ring: You can hunt there but it's a firearms restricted area, so shotgun, muzzle loader or bow. Response: Thanks!

Thing is the other elk that was shot in a "yard" was legal. This elk was not, ever! Oh yea, it was shot in a yard too!

Mr. Grant knew the exact bull that was was going to be taken. There was no trickery or word's twisted  in this case. At the time he gave gave the good to go he was up for promotion. Since then he has gotten it and tried hard to distance himself from this. He is an honest guy and will tell the truth on the stand. And that will be that he double checked to make sure it was all good.

I'm curious are you testifying in the case. Your  giving the impression that you know specific details related to the case, which is interesting because generally open forum web conversation about "facts" of a case are normally not recommended by either side. And I'm sure Grant would not appreciate the nature at which he is being thrown under the bus in regards to his alleged involvement.

[Ghost Hunter]

Is there going to be any open seats in the courtroom for a casual observer?  Might be fun to go 'live' for the final chapter?

[JDHasty]

Yea no biggie. I don't think I would get much enjoyment about telling the story of how I shot a 190" muley over my hood compared to the 150" buck I backpacked in 10 miles and killed with my bow. But both are hunting.

Some hunts take way more effort and skill then others. But the outrage for this bull started not because it was allegedly poached but because it was an easy hunt and not the way these guys would do it. Same as the article states with the "little girl saying it's not hunting".

Sorry to derail this from the judges and prosecutors we have here on Huntwa. You guys can continue labeling this illegal before this guy gets his chance at a trial.

I always thought it was innocent until proven guilty? The law must have changed and I've been to busy to notice. Thanks for helping educate me judges and prosecutors.

Regards, Branden

People who live right at ground zero were absolutely fuming mad about it.  They were not a little upset, they were steaming bloody madder than hell over it.   The individual I know said that if he had wandered "off the reservation" e.g. out of GMU 334 and got killed that they would have missed him, but would have said: well why'd ya' go wandering off to where you would get shot.  Ya big dummy. 

Again, I am not talking about bunny huggers here.  People knew he could wander up north and get plugged any day, but so long as he stayed home shooting him was inexcusable. 

[bearpaw]

Yea no biggie. I don't think I would get much enjoyment about telling the story of how I shot a 190" muley over my hood compared to the 150" buck I backpacked in 10 miles and killed with my bow. But both are hunting.

Some hunts take way more effort and skill then others. But the outrage for this bull started not because it was allegedly poached but because it was an easy hunt and not the way these guys would do it. Same as the article states with the "little girl saying it's not hunting".

Sorry to derail this from the judges and prosecutors we have here on Huntwa. You guys can continue labeling this illegal before this guy gets his chance at a trial.

I always thought it was innocent until proven guilty? The law must have changed and I've been to busy to notice. Thanks for helping educate me judges and prosecutors.

Regards, Branden

I see this elk issue the same way! 

[mfswallace]

Depending on the date when this "hunt" occurred, there is a antlerless hunt in that unit mid November until mid December. You could the WDFW office and say: I'm elk hunting and I'm not sure if I can hunt with a mod rifle or not, can you help me out? Response: Where are you? I'll check and call you back. Ring: You can hunt there but it's a firearms restricted area, so shotgun, muzzle loader or bow. Response: Thanks!

Thing is the other elk that was shot in a "yard" was legal. This elk was not, ever! Oh yea, it was shot in a yard too!

Mr. Grant knew the exact bull that was was going to be taken. There was no trickery or word's twisted  in this case. At the time he gave gave the good to go he was up for promotion. Since then he has gotten it and tried hard to distance himself from this. He is an honest guy and will tell the truth on the stand. And that will be that he double checked to make sure it was all good.

Thank you for your many responses, it good to hear the other side of the story. I understand that many hunters would not want to hunt this animal because they view it as not being a challenging hunt and many view it as unethical to shoot an animal that thinks it's safe in an alfalfa field where it never gets shot at. In reality this animal had probably been legal game in this unit at a previous time in it's life. No doubt since maturing into an outstanding animal there have been dozens if not hundreds of hunters who tried to figure out how they could hunt this animal. In the meantime the animal became more complacent as it was not hunted and was even fed by local residents. It appears many local people adopted the bull as their mascot so to speak.

While many hunters condemn Reichert for shooting this animal it sounds like Reichert did the right thing and asked WDFW how to legally hunt the animal. I have pointed out that if a person calls WDFW with a question and is told you can hunt that seems to me all that is needed. I don't see how Reichert can be found guilty if he was told by WDFW after they researched the issue, that he can shoot the animal with his muzzleloader instead of his rifle and that is what he did.

I feel a person is innocent until proven guilty, I find it unfortunate that hunters are so quick to throw other hunters under the bus before they know the facts. I find it unfortunate that hunters turn on each other because they think one way of hunting is more ethical than another. I also find it unfortunate that a hunter needs a crystal ball to know if what they were told they could do by the enforcing agency will result in such a public outcry.

I'm sure someone will try to chastise me because I didn't publicly join in this witch hunt and I'll probably be accused of being an unethical hunter because I don't join in the outcry because this "mascot" was shot in a farmer's field. But I view it in a neutral "black and white" manner, did the hunter break the law or didn't he break the law. After finally hearing the other side of the story I'm not convinced Reichert broke the law. It sounds like he wanted to find a way to legally take the animal and was told by WDFW how to take the animal and then he proceeded. Sorry, but I question if there was any intent to break the law after hearing the other side of the story.

This whole thing more or less reminds me of "Cecil the Lion", the media will blow this story out of proportion to make hunters look bad because the animal was given a human name and considered by locals to be a pet! Unfortunately hunters are helping this scenario to happen! Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the locals are at fault or that it was smart to shoot this animal. But if you take the emotion out of this story and simply ask yourself two questions, "Was the hunter told by the regulating agency he can shoot the animal?" and "Did the hunter intend to break the law?" While I understand ignorance of the law is no defense I think it's very questionable if Reichert can be found guilty. I would like to hear what Popeshawnpaul thinks after reading all of this?

Way to protect yourself from a lawsuit

[Ghost Hunter]

  Sounds like somebody hit a nerve    Not sure how it relates to this thread

[JDHasty]

I still have a question even though most has been cleared up by now.  Didn't wdfw investigate the case and then hand it over to the county, and recommend prosecution? I would have thought that if Mr Grant gave permission, then the case would have been dropped?  Is it simply because Grant had no authority legally to give the OK?

If permission was really given like they say, then I don't see why he would be found guilty....but then I also don't see why he would even be charged if permission were given?

WDFW absolutely did not recommended prosecution.  The county did that on thier own knowing  if it did go to court WDFW is not going to be good for thier case. They county got a lot of pressure from the likes of the tax money theif and the front porch elk hunter. This case will be dropped long before it sees a jury.

Prosecutor's don't go fishing for cases.  Law enforcement agencies bring cases to them.  And you better watch the libel buster, I commute by train three hours/day.  I have time to compose my thoughts on my ipad and email them to myself.  Posting them takes two clicks of a mouse and what I do on my break time is my business. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

Yea no biggie. I don't think I would get much enjoyment about telling the story of how I shot a 190" muley over my hood compared to the 150" buck I backpacked in 10 miles and killed with my bow. But both are hunting.

Some hunts take way more effort and skill then others. But the outrage for this bull started not because it was allegedly poached but because it was an easy hunt and not the way these guys would do it. Same as the article states with the "little girl saying it's not hunting".

Sorry to derail this from the judges and prosecutors we have here on Huntwa. You guys can continue labeling this illegal before this guy gets his chance at a trial.

I always thought it was innocent until proven guilty? The law must have changed and I've been to busy to notice. Thanks for helping educate me judges and prosecutors.

Regards, Branden

People who live right at ground zero were absolutely fuming mad about it.  They were not a little upset, they were steaming bloody madder than hell over it.   The individual I know said that if he had wandered "off the reservation" e.g. out of GMU 334 and got killed that they would have missed him, but would have said: well why'd ya' go wandering off to where you would get shot.  Ya big dummy. 

Again, I am not talking about bunny huggers here.  People knew he could wander up north and get plugged any day, but so long as he stayed home shooting him was inexcusable.

 And one of them was a Kittitas county superior court judge.......The ones that came up with the name.....And Craig Schnebly  ("Schnebly Bull") is no newcomer to the area....  (Schnebly Rd....Schnebly Canyon).

[kiticaashunter]

Depending on the date when this "hunt" occurred, there is a antlerless hunt in that unit mid November until mid December. You could the WDFW office and say: I'm elk hunting and I'm not sure if I can hunt with a mod rifle or not, can you help me out? Response: Where are you? I'll check and call you back. Ring: You can hunt there but it's a firearms restricted area, so shotgun, muzzle loader or bow. Response: Thanks!

Thing is the other elk that was shot in a "yard" was legal. This elk was not, ever! Oh yea, it was shot in a yard too!

Mr. Grant knew the exact bull that was was going to be taken. There was no trickery or word's twisted  in this case. At the time he gave gave the good to go he was up for promotion. Since then he has gotten it and tried hard to distance himself from this. He is an honest guy and will tell the truth on the stand. And that will be that he double checked to make sure it was all good.

I'm curious are you testifying in the case. Your  giving the impression that you know specific details related to the case, which is interesting because generally open forum web conversation about "facts" of a case are normally not recommended by either side. And I'm sure Grant would not appreciate the nature at which he is being thrown under the bus in regards to his alleged involvement.

At this point I have not been asked to testify. I will have no problem doing so and telling them what I know if they do ask. But I really doubt this case ends up in court, the charge was a result of relentless pressure from a few.