Hunter facing charges after death of beloved elk named Bullwinkle

[asmith]

Shooting this elk was wrong, just like all you hunters who have permission to hunt in wheat fields and alfalfa fields.  I think yall should just stop that kind of hunting altogether, head to the nearest public forest, and give me the location of those fields so I can make sure you don't hunt there anymore

[JDHasty]

Jacalope,

I was invited to participate and another thread starts


Is it true that the guy who won this tag a few years ago, the one who caused all of the controversy because he was involved in a poaching case, won the tag again this year? I thought the guidelines for being eligible for this tag were changed and this was the exact situation that brought that change about?


To which after reading page after page of things about Mr Reichert that i do not belive are fair I posted this this

I will be right up front with all of you and say that Todd Reichert has a reputation for treating his employees very well and his reputation in the community he lives in is enviable. I don't know the man, but I know of him.

I think he used exceedingly poor judgement in Ellensburg, but I don't believe him to be a bad person. I think he needs to have a "come to Jesus moment" and sit down and evaluate how he has conducted himself in the field the last decade or so and make some changes. I hope his actions in Ellensburg are going to provide the motivation for bureaucrats and politicians to start listening to the issues the rank and file sportsmen have with these Auctions & Raffles and clean up the abuses.


************
I have been participating on a very small forum that is based in PA.  It consists mainly of chuck shooters and one of their members is who directed me to that particular forum where Mr Reichert was being discussed. 

And don't anybody try to construe what I say re: abuses into a blanket statement on raffle or auction tags.

I have made my position on that topic perfectly clear.

[257 Wby Mag]

Boy I got dozens of elk, deer, and sheep pics from some nez pierce Indians in Idaho that come over every year to our beloved blues units, and hunt like its wide open, during the rut, or January when they come outta the hills, and kill em with a rifle. Velvet bucks, he really likes it when dummy's post sheep pics on the www from the asotin herd, he just rolls over and kills em, sometimes they roll right into the road... And he laughs and laughs while doing it. this guy would make guys posting here, and Tod look lie a saint..... But it doesn't even rate blurb on the radar. The simple fact is $$$$, if there wasn't so much of it involved folks woulda forgot about this long ago... Google the kill em all gang outta Longview, did they even get mentioned on here??? Or how bout old boy that killed the huge park bull on the skok tag that the kariloen bear dogs found the bones to?? Are they less important?? It sure seems so!!

PS the above mentioned native is killing waaaay over his limit, matter of fact I've been offered to go with him for a price, but never mind him, let's concentrate on the rich guy that buys all your chances...

[Skillet]

Holy cow, lots of squirrels to chase there... so, you're complaining that this thread is still on it's original topic of one specific act committed by one specific person?  Sounds like you're carrying an awful burden with the knowledge of the Nez Perce native abuses of SE WA wildlife - would be a great thread for you to start so it could be discussed there.
And,  yes, the Kill em all boys and the park bull got their due attention on here back when they were going concerns.  I don't see how those long-resolved issues have any relevance whatsoever to this current issue regarding a branched bull shot in a GMU closed to all branched bull hunting.

[mfswallace]

Boy I got dozens of elk, deer, and sheep pics from some nez pierce Indians in Idaho that come over every year to our beloved blues units, and hunt like its wide open, during the rut, or January when they come outta the hills, and kill em with a rifle. Velvet bucks, he really likes it when dummy's post sheep pics on the www from the asotin herd, he just rolls over and kills em, sometimes they roll right into the road... And he laughs and laughs while doing it. this guy would make guys posting here, and Tod look lie a saint..... But it doesn't even rate blurb on the radar. The simple fact is $$$$, if there wasn't so much of it involved folks woulda forgot about this long ago... Google the kill em all gang outta Longview, did they even get mentioned on here??? Or how bout old boy that killed the huge park bull on the skok tag that the kariloen bear dogs found the bones to?? Are they less important?? It sure seems so!!

PS the above mentioned native is killing waaaay over his limit, matter of fact I've been offered to go with him for a price, but never mind him, let's concentrate on the rich guy that buys all your chances...

By all means sit idly by and allow this continued abuse/violation to continue. Don't think of doing anything about it cause he has no money. U are a pos for even stating you know this goes on and that you have evidence he goes over his limit but are doing nothing about it!!!  Expose this native for his abuse and start the process of getting EVERYONE on the same page

[jmscon]

Boy I got dozens of elk, deer, and sheep pics from some nez pierce Indians in Idaho that come over every year to our beloved blues units, and hunt like its wide open, during the rut, or January when they come outta the hills, and kill em with a rifle. Velvet bucks, he really likes it when dummy's post sheep pics on the www from the asotin herd, he just rolls over and kills em, sometimes they roll right into the road... And he laughs and laughs while doing it. this guy would make guys posting here, and Tod look lie a saint..... But it doesn't even rate blurb on the radar. The simple fact is $$$$, if there wasn't so much of it involved folks woulda forgot about this long ago... Google the kill em all gang outta Longview, did they even get mentioned on here??? Or how bout old boy that killed the huge park bull on the skok tag that the kariloen bear dogs found the bones to?? Are they less important?? It sure seems so!!

PS the above mentioned native is killing waaaay over his limit, matter of fact I've been offered to go with him for a price, but never mind him, let's concentrate on the rich guy that buys all your chances...

Standing by and letting a guy go "waaaay over his limit" and not reporting it then you are pretty much aiding and abetting. Almost as bad as the crime itself! 

[mountainman]

Boy I got dozens of elk, deer, and sheep pics from some nez pierce Indians in Idaho that come over every year to our beloved blues units, and hunt like its wide open, during the rut, or January when they come outta the hills, and kill em with a rifle. Velvet bucks, he really likes it when dummy's post sheep pics on the www from the asotin herd, he just rolls over and kills em, sometimes they roll right into the road... And he laughs and laughs while doing it. this guy would make guys posting here, and Tod look lie a saint..... But it doesn't even rate blurb on the radar. The simple fact is $$$$, if there wasn't so much of it involved folks woulda forgot about this long ago... Google the kill em all gang outta Longview, did they even get mentioned on here??? Or how bout old boy that killed the huge park bull on the skok tag that the kariloen bear dogs found the bones to?? Are they less important?? It sure seems so!!

PS the above mentioned native is killing waaaay over his limit, matter of fact I've been offered to go with him for a price, but never mind him, let's concentrate on the rich guy that buys all your chances...

By all means sit idly by and allow this continued abuse/violation to continue. Don't think of doing anything about it cause he has no money. U are a pos for even stating you know this goes on and that you have evidence he goes over his limit but are doing nothing about it!!!  Expose this native for his abuse and start the process of getting EVERYONE on the same page

👆second that!

[257 Wby Mag]

Boy I got dozens of elk, deer, and sheep pics from some nez pierce Indians in Idaho that come over every year to our beloved blues units, and hunt like its wide open, during the rut, or January when they come outta the hills, and kill em with a rifle. Velvet bucks, he really likes it when dummy's post sheep pics on the www from the asotin herd, he just rolls over and kills em, sometimes they roll right into the road... And he laughs and laughs while doing it. this guy would make guys posting here, and Tod look lie a saint..... But it doesn't even rate blurb on the radar. The simple fact is $$$$, if there wasn't so much of it involved folks woulda forgot about this long ago... Google the kill em all gang outta Longview, did they even get mentioned on here??? Or how bout old boy that killed the huge park bull on the skok tag that the kariloen bear dogs found the bones to?? Are they less important?? It sure seems so!!

PS the above mentioned native is killing waaaay over his limit, matter of fact I've been offered to go with him for a price, but never mind him, let's concentrate on the rich guy that buys all your chances...

By all means sit idly by and allow this continued abuse/violation to continue. Don't think of doing anything about it cause he has no money. U are a pos for even stating you know this goes on and that you have evidence he goes over his limit but are doing nothing about it!!!  Expose this native for his abuse and start the process of getting EVERYONE on the same page

Easy now, before you call me a *censored*, you just never know who your talking to....

[257 Wby Mag]

Boy I got dozens of elk, deer, and sheep pics from some nez pierce Indians in Idaho that come over every year to our beloved blues units, and hunt like its wide open, during the rut, or January when they come outta the hills, and kill em with a rifle. Velvet bucks, he really likes it when dummy's post sheep pics on the www from the asotin herd, he just rolls over and kills em, sometimes they roll right into the road... And he laughs and laughs while doing it. this guy would make guys posting here, and Tod look lie a saint..... But it doesn't even rate blurb on the radar. The simple fact is $$$$, if there wasn't so much of it involved folks woulda forgot about this long ago... Google the kill em all gang outta Longview, did they even get mentioned on here??? Or how bout old boy that killed the huge park bull on the skok tag that the kariloen bear dogs found the bones to?? Are they less important?? It sure seems so!!

PS the above mentioned native is killing waaaay over his limit, matter of fact I've been offered to go with him for a price, but never mind him, let's concentrate on the rich guy that buys all your chances...

By all means sit idly by and allow this continued abuse/violation to continue. Don't think of doing anything about it cause he has no money. U are a pos for even stating you know this goes on and that you have evidence he goes over his limit but are doing nothing about it!!!  Expose this native for his abuse and start the process of getting EVERYONE on the same page

👆second that!

Dewey go back into hiding...

[257 Wby Mag]

Holy cow, lots of squirrels to chase there... so, you're complaining that this thread is still on it's original topic of one specific act committed by one specific person?  Sounds like you're carrying an awful burden with the knowledge of the Nez Perce native abuses of SE WA wildlife - would be a great thread for you to start so it could be discussed there.
And,  yes, the Kill em all boys and the park bull got their due attention on here back when they were going concerns.  I don't see how those long-resolved issues have any relevance whatsoever to this current issue regarding a branched bull shot in a GMU closed to all branched bull hunting.

Feel free to point out where the kill em all boys and the park bull have ate , well half the bandwidth as " Bullwinkle"...

Better yet, 1/4 the bandwidth....

[257 Wby Mag]

Would this conversation even be happening if it was a 280" bull? Nope

[blackveltbowhunter]

  257 I gotta disagree. I beleive your comparing apples to oranges. Personally i think this would still have created a big stir if it were a smaller bull. Maybe not as big but certainly caused a ruckus. The forum has blown up since the incidents you refer to. Which will lead to much greater exposure simply due to so many more folks seeing it in one spot.  I remember the kill em all story well. But those were low profile poachers. They were under the radar, trying not to get caught. Whether TR is innocent or guilty, if he actually believes this wouldn't be a high profile case he is either naive or a liar.

[257 Wby Mag]

The aforementioned group did waaaaay more to hunting, game populations than Tod ever dreamed of. Folks didn't become so emotional about it simply cause the $$$ wasn't there and 400" bulls weren't gettin smacked. That's facts, not apples or oranges....

[kiticaashunter]

Kiticasshunter, you clearly seem to know the tag holder so I have a question for you.  When it comes to this individuals hunting exploits is the size of the bull the end all?  Did he ever consider that shooting a bull that was darn near as tame as domestic livestock, well known, and oft photographed might generate  anemosity towards all hunters?  I'm very surprised he choose to burn that tag in this manner considering the opportunities that tag offered him.  Personally, I find little satisfaction in canned hunts but I recognize that not everyone is like me so I won't begrudge another hunter from enjoying the sport in any manner as long as it is legal and ethical.  As a sportsman, however, I always feel an obligation to do my best to represent hunters in a positive  light.  We, hunters, are often our own worst enemy.  When we waste game, make poor ethical decisions involving game, display kills in an undignified manner, hunt in an unsportsmanlike manner, etc we jeopardize the future of hunting.  I figure that roughly 10% of voters hunt.  Another 10% are against hunting so the future of hunting rests with the 80% of voters who don't have a dog in the fight.  I try to always consider how my actions may influence that 80% and do my best to make sure it is for the better.  Anyway, I'm just curious if any of this crossed his mind before he took that shot.  It is my prayer that all of us will do a better job of this in the future so that our grandkids will get to enjoy the same types of hunting experiences that we did.

I agree with everything you said. But I'm not going to tell a man in his 70's with health  issues what a real "hunt" is. As long as it's legal everyone can make thier own decisions on what they do.when a ranking official from the game department says it's ok,  most rational people would assume it is. This bull was shot in a more wild situation than the bull the teanawayslayer guy on this forum was involved in killing last season.  That situation would make most hunters furious.  But it was legal, so I can't say baiting in a front yard is wrong....,

[JDHasty]

257,

I recognized early on where this was headed. 

I posted my observations.  And... I was subject of personal attack just for posting facts that I considered irrefutable with regards to what had been said re: me being a liar, re: me being opposed to Raffle/Auction hunts, and much more importantly about me having a hard-on for Mr Reichert. 

From the very beginning I have said that in my opinion the best outcome would to admit "poor judgement" and for Mr Reichert to take his lumps. 

Again, what gave anyone the notion that killing this particular elk w/in GMU 334 would end well? 

From what others have told me re: the nature of the focus of the news media, beginning early this year: "Bullwinkle" was what they were focused on, and this was not something that was being discussed here.  But, I did try to "telegraph" to those defending Mr Reichert that irrespective of charges filed, yes/no, that what Mr Reichert should be focused on is that aspect.  Did I not?   

People who lined up behind Mr Reichert flat out stated: 
a) how does anybody know the bull was not w/in 334? 
b) that the 2015 Game Regs allowed this hunt to take place 
c) That if a & b above were not in Mr Reichert's favor - Morgan Grant gave explicit permission.   

I am familiar with the game regs and posted the controlling legal authority re: the restrictions on the tag and I posted a map showing the general location the animal was taken.  It is within GMU 334.  And I posted the pages out of the 2015 Game regs w/the GMU in question highlighted.

I did not say that Mr Grant never gave explicit permission, but I said I was skeptical that the conversation went down the way it has been portrayed. 

And I clearly stated:  Just by coincidence I had followed the 2007 incident closely.  Just out of curiosity, but that knowledge raised "red flags."  This isn't his first rodeo.  I do not know why after coming across the 2007 incident I followed it, but I do follow such things. 

Going back to the earlier epic thread I got into a discussion with others re: what I referred to as "usual suspects" and was able to give a fairly accurate account of an incident that took place in Mt Rainier National Park, I remembered who, what and basically where and when and then found published validation of my recollections of what went down in the legal arena and to the absolute best of my knowledge every thing else I stated is factual re: the Argo's reputation.  I don't know why these cases fascinate me, but the simple fact is they do.

Re; the 2007 incident, there were things I clearly stated were what I recall when I could not validate what I was posting.  But if what I posted was posted as fact, I provided documentation. 

And, on top of everything else, I have clearly stated that I do not see Mr Reichert as a "bad guy," I have posted that over and over again.  Have I not?  And when posting that I gave my reasoning for accepting that conclusion.  Did I not?

Clearly, in my mind poor judgement was exercised in this case.  I keep asking: what could give anyone the notion that this was going to end well?  It just simply was not going to end well in anyone's mind, or someone, anyone, would walk me and the rest of us through a scenario in which taking this elk within GMU 334 ends well. 

Irrespective of charges having been filed/not being filed by the time I got really involved in the discussion the "bullwinkle" story was being developed.   

I was "late to the game." I was not interviewed when the news people started poking around asking questions.  I have in my possession a hand written note that was taken off a phone line that only long time friends would use to call me.  The note asked me to return a call from a reporter.  You can do the math re: how did they get that phone number.  Out of the white pages maybe, but more likely than not someone I have known since before I had a cell phone gave them that number. 

Why did they want to talk to me?  I guess that it is because I have posted what I consider as reliable info.  Of course, if you are working on a story...  you do a Lexis Nexis search. 

OK now here is what information I provided: 

I live in Tacoma, but I keep my RV in central Washington, mostly Ellensburg for the better part of five months out of the year. 

I shoot chucks, and I saw a guy in Fred Meyer who had an alfalfa grower belt buckle on and pigeon holed him and that conversation developed into a friendship. 
 Through that friendship I developed friendships with people who have had conversations I was a part of about what went down and they had no reason to exaggerate. 

No, you have already told me you have talked to anyone I know who would know first hand. 

Yes, I understand that some residents are reluctant to "go on the record." 

No, he lives in Thorp, but his relatives live right at ground zero.  I really don't know if pursuing him would provide any first hand knowledge. 

No, this Todd Reichert is not a lawyer.  He owns a shake mill off Hwy 12.  I don't know him, but I know of him.  He has a great reputation in his community. 

No, I do not know the officer personally, I but I know his brother well and have only met Morgan Grant once (that is how I knew the "who" within WDFW).  But I do know of Morgan Grant's reputation re: grey areas.  I cannot help you out on the nature of the call.   

Yes, I know Rich Mann and yes, you are right, he is by the book.  Rich Mann is very familiar to me.  When I was younger "I met up with him in the field all the time and he is strictly by the book."  What is written in the Game Regs is what Rich Mann considers "the bible."  So if someone has said Rich Mann signed off... I am skeptical.

This topic was dormant on hunting-washington, Cboom basically called me out and then proceeded to attack my reputation in an effort to discredit me. 

I shared my thoughts re: where I could go re: shadow of the doubt and the potential repercussions of pursuing that strategy and was again personally attacked.

I have gone on record saying that I do not think Mr Reichert used good judgement and then provided an opinion on why I think that any "incompetent to read and understand the Game Regs strategy" would serve Mr Reichert well and have also pointed out where I consider various strategies flawed and are not IMHO opinion the best avenue to proceed down.