Hunter facing charges after death of beloved elk named Bullwinkle

[rtspring]

One  more thing, my gun sas not seized, I gave it to them to test it as noted in court documents, then they seized it in accordance with their way of stealing it!   

[bigtex]

It seems the forfeiture laws are "subjectively inforced" or is there extenuating circumstances to why the were not enforced in this case.
With so many people involved it would be a windfall for the WDFW, lol

Civil forfeiture is not used in all cases, in fact I'd say it's probably used in like 1-3% of all WDFW cases. It all comes down to officer discretion.

[Dan-o]

This whole Bullwinkle thread is very confusing.

I didn't think there was even a Governor's tag for moose in 334???

[rtspring]

Sort of a side question but I think was asked a few pages ago. Why did he not lose truck/rifle/elk head/etc....didn't rt lose everything when he was accused of poaching a few years ago?? And that was just on a two pt md! Not even for what the state claims as a trophy! Just curious if this were a serious offense why the same isn't being done with this current case? (Rt was found NOT GUILTY to any new readers btw)

That's a very good point. It seems I heard that if you voluntarily give them your weapon they take it, but they can't take if you say no. Is that correct?
Another question, I've heard of wardens entering a home and taking all sorts of things, how does that work?

#1 Officers (any LEO enforcing F&W laws not just WDFW) can seize it under their authority, you can't say "no"
#2 Pursuant to a search warrant. Or if the person allows them to.

Thanks for clarification.

So if you are found innocent does all your stuff have to be returned?

Well first off we need to understand there are items that are seized as evidence in the criminal case, and there are items seized civilly. The civil forfeiture is the law most people know about it is essentially a separate case from the criminal case. The criminal judge can order the return of the evidence in the criminal case, but they have no jurisdiction in the civil forfeiture.

As you can see in the above RCW you are notified via an official notice regarding your rights in the civil forfeiture. If you get the notice and do nothing and it turns out months down the road you are found not guilty your items will not be returned because you failed to follow the law in contesting the forfeiture. Essentially you need to tell WDFW within 45 days of their notice you want your stuff back and are contesting it.

So here's my 'advice'. If you are "wrongfully" charged and an officer seizes property for forfeiture immediately file the claim that you are contesting the forfeiture. At least now you could use the criminal case adjudication in the civil case. So if you are found not guilty criminally you could bring that up in the civil forfeiture contest hearing.

Prosecutors have one year to file misdemeanor charges and two years to file gross misdemeanor charges (such as unlawful take of big game 2nd degree) so obviously that is outside of that 45 day contest notification window. You definitely don't want to be sitting around thinking well when I am found not guilty WDFW will give me my stuff, because under state law that's not how it works.

In other words, WDFW are thieves!  Why would anyone PAY to get a gun back when they did nothing wrong!  This is what mudt do withing Bigtex's 45 day response he is talking about in the civil part.   And why is there two rules to one crime?

If I remember correctly you took a plea deal on the criminal charges.....

I know of many instances where gear was handed over at no charge once individuals were found to be not guilty in the criminal case.

So your saying, if one already spent 5000 grand on attorney fees, After being lied to by WDFW he should keep paying to fight his case to get a 500.00 gun back?  Sugar coat it all you want but the current way WDFW steal peoples stuff is ludicrist at best.  But yet WE thd public are to support them? No way!  I have never ever been in cuffs let alone arrested for any crime and yet I lost due to the money I would have to put out to win.   How in the heck is that fair? 

Your people are thieves hiding behind badges and paperwork that only an attorney cant understand. I did not plead guilty.  And why was I in a courtroom with a judge who could punish me if found guilty but the same judge does not have authority to give my gun back even though he ordered it in writing to be given back???

[bigtex]

Your people are thieves hiding behind badges and paperwork that only an attorney cant understand. I did not plead guilty.  And why was I in a courtroom with a judge who could punish me if found guilty but the same judge does not have authority to give my gun back even though he ordered it in writing to be given back???

You did take a plea deal in which you had to essentially not violate any laws for a few months correct?

I will only say it once because we have discussed it before. You have criminal judges who handle criminal cases and administrative judges who handle civil/administrative cases. If you don't understand that then sign up for intro to law classes at your local community college.

[chester]

Your people are thieves hiding behind badges and paperwork that only an attorney cant understand. I did not plead guilty.  And why was I in a courtroom with a judge who could punish me if found guilty but the same judge does not have authority to give my gun back even though he ordered it in writing to be given back???

You did take a plea deal in which you had to essentially not violate any laws for a few months correct?

I will only say it once because we have discussed it before. You have criminal judges who handle criminal cases and administrative judges who handle civil/administrative cases. If you don't understand that then sign up for intro to law classes at your local community college.

I think the point he's trying to make is that just because that's the way it is doesn't make it right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tbar]

Why would you take a plea deal if you were innocent?

[mfswallace]

Why would you take a plea deal if you were innocent?

And OJ was innocent right Oh yeah he was found guilty in civil court

That's the chance you take with the system even if innocent, can't blame anyone for making sure they don't get railroaded to the pokey

[Tbar]

Why would you take a plea deal if you were innocent?

And OJ was innocent right Oh yeah he was found guilty in civil court

That's the chance you take with the system even if innocent, can't blame anyone for making sure they don't get railroaded to the pokey

Well if I was innocent, I not only would not take a plea deal,  I would see the WDFW in civil court.  They seem to hemorrhage money in that system.

[Tbar]

This whole Bullwinkle thread is very confusing.

I didn't think there was even a Governor's tag for moose in 334???

It was the raffle tag. ...  

[mfswallace]

Why would you take a plea deal if you were innocent?

And OJ was innocent right Oh yeah he was found guilty in civil court

That's the chance you take with the system even if innocent, can't blame anyone for making sure they don't get railroaded to the pokey

Well if I was innocent, I not only would not take a plea deal,  I would see the WDFW in civil court.  They seem to hemorrhage money in that system.

Innocence sometimes has nothing to do with the legal system

PopeShawn gave a great example of a dui victims account of being setup by the system.

Look at this thread... Fact-- TR shot a branched antlered elk in a closed gmu yet it is up for interpretation by a judge or jury who will decide what guilt or innocence is...

[Tbar]

Why would you take a plea deal if you were innocent?

And OJ was innocent right Oh yeah he was found guilty in civil court

That's the chance you take with the system even if innocent, can't blame anyone for making sure they don't get railroaded to the pokey

Well if I was innocent, I not only would not take a plea deal,  I would see the WDFW in civil court.  They seem to hemorrhage money in that system.

Innocence sometimes has nothing to do with the legal system

PopeShawn gave a great example of a dui victims account of being setup by the system.

Look at this thread... Fact-- TR shot a branched antlered elk in a closed gmu yet it is up for interpretation by a judge or jury who will decide what guilt or innocence is...

I think there's a little more to it than that.  I do agree with part of your statement.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

In my mind, there is little doubt about guilt or innocence, intent is obvious in this case.
He had a tag, chose an animal to put the tag on, then proceeded to harvest the animal he chose without regard to the rules that apply.
No matter the outcome of this case, it will have little impact on the future of Elk in Washington.
It is already headed towards a matter of how many dollars you can afford.
Unless you are one of the lucky few who can draw a permit, you will be forced to camp during hunting season, but only if you can afford to pay the access fee.
Much like the elk population, and free public access, this too will go away... eventually.

[Curly]

Eastside counties aren't immune to this. Basically if you have an interstate highway in your county the prosecutor will be too busy to  handle fish and wildlife cases.

Kittitas County has an interstate hwy running thru it and they are prosecuting the bullwinkle case.  Is that simply because it is such a high profile case?  Do they drop most other poaching cases?

Kittitas is not good at fish and wildlife cases. They're standard plea policy is to drop criminal cases to an infraction if you are a good boy for a few months.

I didn't want to get the other thread too far off topic so I copied and pasted the posts here.  Sounds like a good chance TR will get a slap on the wrist if history in Kittitas Co is any indication of what will happen in this case. 

Will definitely be interesting to see what happens in the case.

[REHJWA]

Crazy how this case gets so much more attention