Why are success rates so low for muzzleloader elk??

[colockumelk]

Everything nearly has to be perfect, not quite as perfect as with a bow, but nearer to perfect. Around 100 yards is max, no running shots, no second shot, etc. If you were out listening to all the shots during muzzleloader season, then look at the harvest reports, you know there is a lot of missing going on.

Clockum, thats a bold statement to be makin to say that most guys can't shoot for crap...especially to my post, seemingly meaning that I can't shoot for crap. My success rate with a muzzleloader proves otherwise. I passed a shot on a buck at a ranged 147 yards this year. He was quartering away and I had a rest. At that distance my front site covers the entire front half of the deer. That isn't precise enough for me. I shoot a lot, and will take a shot to 125 yards. But for the discussion, what sight are you shooting? And what groups are you regularly getting at 200 yards? I live in Ellensburg and would love to see the master at his craft.   

fishunt calm down I never said you couldn't shoot for crap.  I have never seen you shoot so I would never say that about you.  In your original statement you said that 100yds was the max range for a ML.  For many people this may be true.  For me it is not.  I was simply stating as such.  In your first post you said that there was alot of missing going on so you are also saying people can't shoot for crap.  I'm not saying everybody that ML hunts can't shoot for crap but many can't.  This is because many people are lazy and only practise once or twice before the season and call it good.  Then they shoot past 100yds and thus miss.  Thus they can't shoot for crap.  I'm not saying this about everyone.  But if the shoe fits....... 

To answer your questions about my set up.  I shoot a T/C Black Diamond XTR in .50 cal.  I use a peep sight and shoot 100grns of Pyrodex pellets and shoot a 250 grain sabot with a polymer tip.  I agree past 100yds regular regular sights block out the entire deer.  I hunt open country for deer and wanted more range and accuracy for my ML.  Thus I switched to the peep sight.  The last time I shot at 100yds I had two bullets touching each other and the third was maybe half an inch below those two.  The next three times that I target practised I shot at a 8 inch diameter steel target at 150 yds and hit it every time.  At 200yds I hit that 8 inch target 2 out of 3 times.  I was also in the Marine Corps for 4 plus years and regularly shot out to 500meters with peep sights.  I'm not a sniper by any means but I can shoot.   

[Moose Eyes]

colockumelk

What peep sight did you put on your Black Diamond?  My dad uses the same gun and I am interested in setting him with something other than the sight that came with the gun.

Thanks!

[colockumelk]

Yeah the sights that come with the Black Diamond are horrible for accurate groups.  The sights are too fat.  I went to this website and bought this peep sight. It costs $36.95 http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/wgrs.htm
Code No. 66708
Model No.  WGRS-Black Diamond

[OneHorn]

Everything nearly has to be perfect, not quite as perfect as with a bow, but nearer to perfect. Around 100 yards is max, no running shots, no second shot, etc. If you were out listening to all the shots during muzzleloader season, then look at the harvest reports, you know there is a lot of missing going on.

Clockum, thats a bold statement to be makin to say that most guys can't shoot for crap...especially to my post, seemingly meaning that I can't shoot for crap. My success rate with a muzzleloader proves otherwise. I passed a shot on a buck at a ranged 147 yards this year. He was quartering away and I had a rest. At that distance my front site covers the entire front half of the deer. That isn't precise enough for me. I shoot a lot, and will take a shot to 125 yards. But for the discussion, what sight are you shooting? And what groups are you regularly getting at 200 yards? I live in Ellensburg and would love to see the master at his craft.   

fishunt calm down I never said you couldn't shoot for crap.  I have never seen you shoot so I would never say that about you.  In your original statement you said that 100yds was the max range for a ML.  For many people this may be true.  For me it is not.  I was simply stating as such.  In your first post you said that there was alot of missing going on so you are also saying people can't shoot for crap.  I'm not saying everybody that ML hunts can't shoot for crap but many can't.  This is because many people are lazy and only practise once or twice before the season and call it good.  Then they shoot past 100yds and thus miss.  Thus they can't shoot for crap.  I'm not saying this about everyone.  But if the shoe fits....... 

I got the same thing outa what you said as fishunt247. You make it sound like no one can shoot but you. I think what fishunt247 was saying is that people take alot of long shots that they shouldnt and miss the elk in general.He wasnt saying that nobody can shoot.

[rasbo]

I dont know If you guys have tried this I use the top of my front sight as my aiming point,then it dont cover the whole animal.I love the t/c sights true glow.

[docsven]

I was up at the range today with the green river mountain men, noticed the old timers said a lot of the same thing "a lot of new ML shooters don't practice much, and they don't know the line between proper powder measures and bullet weight,  don't take the time to get to know their rifle and where it shoots" they also were saying that the inline rifles don't have the proper twist rate using sabots that the patch and ball traditionals have.  Personally, I don't know anything about them, but I have thought about taking it up for the difference in season.  After what I saw today, it looks like there's a lot more to it, and they said the same thing about kill range, 100 to up to 150 yards. The 70-something year old (oldest shooter) was cleaning up!

[Moose Eyes]

Yeah the sights that come with the Black Diamond are horrible for accurate groups.  The sights are too fat.  I went to this website and bought this peep sight. It costs $36.95 http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/wgrs.htm
Code No. 66708
Model No.  WGRS-Black Diamond

Thank you!

[colockumelk]

Your welcome.  A word of advice.  The new sights took me a couple of times to get used to.  The first time I went shooting with them I shot like absolute crap.  I mean super horrible.  THe second time I went out I shot okay and thought really hard about getting rid of them.  The third time I went out shooting with those sights I shot fairly well.  The fourth time I shot awsome.  I zeroed it in at 100yds and then my next two shots were touching each other and the bulls eye and the third shot was about 1/2 and inch below my first two shots.  From then on I shot at an 8 inch steel target.  At 150yds it shot about 4 inches low and I hit it every time.  At 200yds I hit it 2 out of three times at I believe was shooting about a foot or so low.  You will not regret getting a peep sight I recommend it to every one.  Both my brothers have them now and they love them.  Running shots will be a little bit harder but that's not an ideal shot anyways.  Good luck.

[fishunt247]

Clockum, sorry if I misunderstood. That is just what I got out of it. I used to muzzleload strictly for elk, and went to the Truglo Tridium so I could squeeze all I could out of shooting light. I have since dropped the elk gig and hunt deer with it. I also hunt open country deer now, and have tried to practice to 150 with that sight...its a no go. For me with that sight it is a guessing game at best. I may have to switch to a peep now that I just deer hunt.

[colockumelk]

I was the same way.  I bow hunt for elk and I only use the muzzleloader for deer.  My T/C came with those big fat tridium sights and while I could get decent groups out to 100 yds that was about it because they are so fat.  Well the vast majority of my deer hunting is in the open country.  This year I shot my deer on the last  day at 165 yds because that is close as I could get.  I had to low crawl 50 yds.  If I hadn't had the peep sight I never would have been able to make that shot.  Even then she was perfectly broad side and I never would have taken that shot that far out if she'd been quartering at all.  If you do go to the peep expect to shoot like crap the first few times.  I did.  I almost thought about getting rid of it.  But the third or fourth time I took it out I finally got good with it and shot some amazing groups.  It just got better from there.  If you switch you will see some amazing results.  If you scroll up I posted the website and which site I got in reply to moose eyes question.  Below that I gave out a bunch of advise on the sight as well.  A lessons learned sort of thing.  Again yeah I wasn't trying to bash an individual out there I was bashing people who shoot like crap because they don't put any effort into getting good or staying profficient with their tools.  The elk and deer deserve better than that. 

[Curly]

Bobcat I'm not sure what the seasons are over on the west side but on the east side it hits the tail end of the rut.

I believe that in Western Wa the bulls have bread all the cows by the time ML season starts.  When I've hunted Eastern Wa the bulls could be called in during ML season, but W WA has been a different story for me.  Maybe other people have had different experiences, but my experience has been that they are done by the time we can hunt.  I haven't been able to find any branched bulls with a herd of cows during ML season in W Wa.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

2 years ago we found bulls running with cows the week prior to the start of ML season. Opening day came and the herds of cows we were watching had lost there bulls. We found one and it was a 5 point that had been running with approx. 25 cows the week prior but he was all alone when we found him.
We have been up hunting and had bulls talking to us but we could never get them to commit. Some years we hit the tail end of the rut, some years we are right in the thick of the rut, and some years it is over with. Depends on the weather, the light of day and the cows... And we only hunt the wet side, i know nothing of the east side.

[colockumelk]

Apparantly the West Side is way better.  At least over there you can shoot cows and branch bulls. Over here you are restricted to spike only unless the special permit gods smile upon you and grant you a branch bull tag.  (This happens once every ten years or so)  Yeah thank you WDFW by doing your best to provide us with quality of hunting.  Why would anyone ever want to hunt anywhere else but the great state of Washington.  Wow the bull just got deep in here. 

[bobcat]

Actually there is very little cow elk hunting opportunity over here, either. At least not in any unit that has many elk and has public land to hunt.

[Curly]

The westside does have its drawbacks........it rains all the time, so you have a good chance of getting your powder wet and having a misfire.  And like Bobcat said, you can't shoot cows.  We have 3-point minimum rules, but the season is usually after the rut and it is difficult to find a branched bull since they aren't with the cows.  We found a bunch of spikes and cows last year but no 3-points.