collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting  (Read 8217 times)

Offline Sabotloader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 2309
  • Location: Idaho, Northern
Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« on: August 19, 2015, 06:22:55 PM »
A couple of forum members asked me how do I go about knurling bullets.  It is really not very scientific - it just works for me.

I have been knurling bullets for the last couple years just using a couple of files to increase the diameter of a given bullet to allow it to load full in my ML's.

It all actually started with 0.5045 Bull Shop lead conicals that I was trying to use in my White Ultra-Mag. In my rifle I was a  uncomfortable with the ease that they loaded and I worried about that heavy bullet possibly falling off the powder in the bore.  The simple solution was to make the OD of the bullet slightly larger than it was. After asking some questions on different forums - I was told the easy answer is 'knurl' them between to files to create a lift in diameter by displacing some of the lead material.  Running the bullets between two course files created the lift I needed.  Knurling lead was really easy and best of all it was very forgiving.  Even when I got to great of a lift loading pushing the soft lead through the crown was not a problem at all.  Then the ignition of the powder would cause the soft lead bullet to obturate even more to the bore.

A few years ago in an attempt to shoot bull bore copper/lead bullets in the 50 became an interest.  With the advent of the Desert Eagle and other newer 50 cal. weapons the availability of quality 50 cal. bullets became even greater.  And there were some really good 50 cal. bullets on the market.  Recently I have re-newed my interest and stated with Speer 50 cal. 300 grain deep curls. After that effort I turned to Barnes XPB pistol bullets.  These all copper bullets required me to change files to a mill file to get a more even knurl and then with the Lehigh brass bullet I then changed to a General Purpose flat file that a bit more aggressive than the General Purpose Mill file.

This was the Mill file that I am using for Copper-lead or copper bullets to create the lift.



To get the lift needed on the harder brass bullets I changed to a slightly more course file using a General Purpose Flat file



How much lift do really need? that really depends on the size of your bore and the bullet you choose to use in it.  I would suggest to you that the bullet does not have to fit as tight as you might think to achieve stabilization and accuracy.

When I talked to Lehigh Dave about this project he suggested the a gentleman along time ago produced bullet that were called 'bore riders' they made very little contact with the bore and were extremely accurate.  You might do a search for Lutz Moeller and look at his bullet offerings.

Using his general thoughts I knurl the Barnes and Lehigh to work pretty much on his principles.  I do add a MMP Ballistic Sub-Bridge under the bullet (essentially a wad) to trap the gas behind the bullet.  For myself the sub-bridge or sub-base provides a more positive gas seal than a wool wad or even a shot card might especially against the physical heat created by T7 or BH.

so how do I do it...

I place a piece of leather on a countertop and the file on top of the leather.  The leather holds the bottom file in place.  Then place the bullet to be knurled on the bottom file and the second file on top of the bullet.



Then with heavy pressure applied to both ends of the top file I roll the bullet between the two files. The pressure displaces copper or brass creating a lift on the surface of the bullet.

These are Lehigh's that have undergone the lifting process.



How many times you roll the bullet depends on the amount of lift you need.  Stand the rifle by you knurling station. Remove the breech plug and drop the new bullet through. If it passes through rapidly to may need a lot of lift requiring more rolling.  my suggestion is roll the bullet 3-4" on the files once and test it in the bore.  You want enough lift that it will not pass through the crown of the bore.

When placing the bullet on the bottom file place it so the heel of bullet does not get knurled.



Place the top file on the bullet again with the heel extended out from between the files.



Leaving the heel clean will allow you to set the bullet in the crown of the bore and make it easier to push down either with a short starter or you ram rod. I believe it is very important to have knurling close to the heel of the bullet and all the way across the ogive of the bullet so that it goes down the bore evenly.  This extend knurl will also insure the grip on the lands of the bore. And again heavy loading pressure is not needed for stabilization.

Place both hands on the top file and apply a heavy downward pressure on the bullet and roll it forward between the two files. Check the bullet in the crown and repeat the process until the needed amount of lift is achieved.

This bullet was rolled 3 times and placed in the crown it stopped going down at the knurling and is ready to be pushed through the crown,



I would also suggest you do not to do many bullets until you are actually able to check the bullet by pushing it all the way through the bore.

Also I would start with copper bullets as they are more forgiving and will allow you to push a heavily knurled bullet through the bore especially with the aid of a short starter to get it through the crown.

Hope this helps some who might try this process.
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline waynelw

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 3
  • Location: Longview, WA
    • n/a
  • Groups: NRA
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 05:30:38 PM »
Hello, I am new to this forum, well any forum really.  I found HWF Googling for 45 caliber conical solutions and stumbled on the knurling thread.  I have a couple of White rifles in .504 and a Knight MK-85 I re-barreled to .40 using a .40-65 lever action barrel from Green Mountain.  I found my solution to feeding both of these bores by purchasing swaged paper patch bullets (from http://www.buffaloarms.com/) at or .001" below bore size and using a Corbin Bullet knurl (http://www.corbins.com/hct-2.htm) to bump bullets up to groove diameter -0 / +.001.  I use the White 2000 super grease (for breach plugs) to lube the knurled portion of the body of the bullets.

.40 cal - 370 grain PP, greased, 1 or 2 wonder wads, 65gr 3f 777 powder, #11 cap
.504 cal - 500 grain PP, greased, 1 or 2 wonder wads, 80gr 2f 777 powder, #11 cap

I posted this as a reply to the old thread because it has been read 450 times and likely there are still folks looking for this type of information.

As far as the 45 caliber solution goes, PP bullets are not going to work for me because I have a Green Mountain LRH barrel in a TC stock.  The twist is not fast enough to stabilize the longer heavy PP bullets.  So I am now working on using pistol bullets full bore plus.002-.003".  These bullets are cast  from 25:1 lead:tin and come lubed.  Because they have grease grooves and are already lubed, knurling would be a mess so I am starting this adventure with .454 diameter bullets of 250 grain weight and round nose.

Thoughts anyone?

Offline Sabotloader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 2309
  • Location: Idaho, Northern
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 06:22:46 PM »
I looked at the Corbin tool but the price for the amount that I do has me hesitant. 
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline cumminsbassguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2015
  • Posts: 146
  • Location: Spokane
  • Groups: Spokane Bass Club
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 06:38:30 PM »
so you are doing the knurling to a .50 cal bullet..   would this work with any lead or copper bullet? so long as it is not in a sabot ?

Offline dscubame

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 3603
  • Location: Spokane WA
  • 2013 Idaho Elk Hunt
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 07:35:00 PM »
Sabotloader you are great for sharing your knowledge.

I wish I got down to shoot with you and don't have a good excuse.  Got busy in general getting projects wrapped before CO.  Ill let you know how the Thor bullets work out and thanks again for all the info you have shared over the last few months.  Dan.
It's a TIKKA thing..., you may not understand.

Eyes in the Woods.   ' '

Offline Sabotloader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 2309
  • Location: Idaho, Northern
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2016, 08:24:45 PM »
so you are doing the knurling to a .50 cal bullet..   would this work with any lead or copper bullet? so long as it is not in a sabot ?

My answer would be yes!  Since ML bores are not all the same you would need to find a 5 cal. bullet you might want to use  and see hw it fits your bore.  From that you would need to determine hw much knurling you might need.  Copper and lead bullets ae very easy to knurl.

I have also found another method of knurling i will try to get some pictures tomarrow and post them.

Just so you know I have found that the Speer 50x300 gr. Gold Dot is the largest diameter bullet I have found.  The Barnes 50x275 gr. is also a good bullet for Knurling.

I would also suggest that you use some form of wad/shot card under the bullet to act as a gas check.
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Sabotloader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 2309
  • Location: Idaho, Northern
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2016, 08:26:13 PM »
Sabotloader you are great for sharing your knowledge.

I wish I got down to shoot with you and don't have a good excuse.  Got busy in general getting projects wrapped before CO.  Ill let you know how the Thor bullets work out and thanks again for all the info you have shared over the last few months.  Dan.

Invatation is always open!
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline cumminsbassguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2015
  • Posts: 146
  • Location: Spokane
  • Groups: Spokane Bass Club
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2016, 09:44:50 PM »
so you are doing the knurling to a .50 cal bullet..   would this work with any lead or copper bullet? so long as it is not in a sabot ?

My answer would be yes!  Since ML bores are not all the same you would need to find a 5 cal. bullet you might want to use  and see hw it fits your bore.  From that you would need to determine hw much knurling you might need.  Copper and lead bullets ae very easy to knurl.

I have also found another method of knurling i will try to get some pictures tomarrow and post them.

Just so you know I have found that the Speer 50x300 gr. Gold Dot is the largest diameter bullet I have found.  The Barnes 50x275 gr. is also a good bullet for Knurling.

I would also suggest that you use some form of wad/shot card under the bullet to act as a gas check.
ill have to look into those for future reference when I get a new smoke pole.   this year im stuck with my buckhorn and some  330g kieth nose 45

Offline waynelw

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2016
  • Posts: 3
  • Location: Longview, WA
    • n/a
  • Groups: NRA
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2016, 09:32:48 AM »
so you are doing the knurling to a .50 cal bullet..   would this work with any lead or copper bullet? so long as it is not in a sabot ?

Measuring bore size I choose a bullet of pure or nearly pure lead that is bore diameter or bore -.001" diameter.  I choose bullets that I expect to work with the twist rate of my rifle, and knurl them up to approximately groove diameter or groove +.001".  Knurling may be accomplished in different ways, I use a tool designed to knurl bullets.

I use paper patch bullets because they fit my criteria and are available in a variety of diameters near typical cartridge rifle bore sizes and are relatively inexpensive costing about $20-25 for a box of 50.

I have not experimented with non-lead bullets in muzzle loaders without benefit of a sabot. 

My :twocents:.

Offline cumminsbassguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2015
  • Posts: 146
  • Location: Spokane
  • Groups: Spokane Bass Club
Re: Knurling bullets for Full Bore Shooting
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2016, 03:09:18 PM »
so you are doing the knurling to a .50 cal bullet..   would this work with any lead or copper bullet? so long as it is not in a sabot ?

Measuring bore size I choose a bullet of pure or nearly pure lead that is bore diameter or bore -.001" diameter.  I choose bullets that I expect to work with the twist rate of my rifle, and knurl them up to approximately groove diameter or groove +.001".  Knurling may be accomplished in different ways, I use a tool designed to knurl bullets.

I use paper patch bullets because they fit my criteria and are available in a variety of diameters near typical cartridge rifle bore sizes and are relatively inexpensive costing about $20-25 for a box of 50.

I have not experimented with non-lead bullets in muzzle loaders without benefit of a sabot. 

My :twocents:.
what I have taken from my time researching on forums and what not is that a sabot bullet is far more common that a full bore conical.   I would really like to get a full bore but sabot bullets are kinda more cost efficient

 


* Advertisement

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal