Frustrated with archery hunting;

[copasj]

My limited experience was that there is huge amount of difference between trailing an archery and rifle shot deer.  Much less blood, and the deer snuck off after a few short bounds vs running like a bat out of hades.  I was also on an even plane with the deer and both holes were mid chest.  I was able to find very little blood comparatively, and that dried up completely about 20 yards before the deer died.  There was a LOT of blood still in the chest cavity. 

All that said, the best he can do is try again.  Trying to get closer would be his best bet also.  There is a whole lot more variables to account for with a bow than a rifle, and a lot less energy to damage tissue.  But that is what made it rewarding for me, definitely not for the faint of heart.

Also, look at the entry and exit holes on lucky1's pictures.  That's too low on my 3d target, about the bottom of the insert.  But I'm guessing he hit the heart.

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[Lucky1]

My limited experience was that there is huge amount of difference between trailing an archery and rifle shot deer.  Much less blood, and the deer snuck off after a few short bounds vs running like a bat out of hades.  I was also on an even plane with the deer and both holes were mid chest.  I was able to find very little blood comparatively, and that dried up completely about 20 yards before the deer died.  There was a LOT of blood still in the chest cavity. 

All that said, the best he can do is try again.  Trying to get closer would be his best bet also.  There is a whole lot more variables to account for with a bow than a rifle, and a lot less energy to damage tissue.  But that is what made it rewarding for me, definitely not for the faint of heart.

Also, look at the entry and exit holes on lucky1's pictures.  That's too low on my 3d target, about the bottom of the insert.  But I'm guessing he hit the heart.

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Yep. Hit the heart.

[coachcw]

allways judge on the low side better to miss low than hit hi. on a deer the three blade grim reaper leaves a blood bath . bad shots can be made with any weapon . I watched two elk pretty much go no where from two pocket hits this year . good luck to jr in his future , its part of hunting .

[rtspring]

No bullet box or broadhead package guarantees a kill.  It is our job as hunters to make the 100 percent lethal shot.  Its a game we all play, there is no promise of a kill.

It happens to the best of us.

I stuck a spike elk at 15 feet last year. That lived to see another day,  All we can do is ensure we take a lethal shot. Sometimes it works and sometimes it just dont.  Thats hunting.

[WAcoyotehunter]

It certainly happens, but a deer or elk that was hit properly ALWAYS dies, generally very quickly.  I suspect the shot was not where you guys thought it was and either hit high and passed through or missed entirely.  That setup probably would have passed right through the ribs and made a lot of blood trail.

[Sneaky]

I would try lightening up that arrow. At what I imagine is a short draw length, on a slow bow shooting only 50lbs your speeds are probably really low with a 500gr arrow which gives the deer more time to react after the release.

If you do the math, shooting that heavy arrow is not giving you any significant increase in kinetic energy because of adverse effect to speed. My calculations on lighter arrows vs. heavier arrows for your son's setup are hovering within 2-3lbs of eachother, so you might as well go with a lighter arrow and pick up some speed.

There is a great deal on goldtip hunter pro (.001") straightness arrows on amazon right now in 500 spine. I would cut them to 27", or shorter if his draw can afford it, and get a lighter arrow with higher front of center. This will travel faster and hit just as hard as what he has going right now. I would also get rid of the lighted nocks and go to a standard nock as the heavy tail of those arrows is robbing you of FOC. 

https://www.amazon.com/Gold-Tip-Hunter-Arrows-1-Dozen/dp/B00UTJIT0U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476242151&sr=8-1&keywords=goldtip+hunter+pro

37.95 a dozen for these arrows is a steal! Good luck.

[Sneaky]

Also, there is a mail in rebate that might work for those arrows, making them really really cheap.

https://goldtip.com/newsdetail.aspx?id=93&type=1

[npaull]

If he hit "no mans land" above the lungs and below the spine, the deer is probably ok. It happens often and people blame broadheads, archery itself as the reason they didn't get the animal. I have killed more than 30 deer with a bow and arrow. Some kills were ugly, but most are quick and clean. Don't let him get discouraged. It will happen and there is nothing more exciting and satisfying than getting one with a bow. Pictures of this years deer. He went about 40 yards and piled up. Used a schwacker mechanical head.

The "no man's land" is an utter myth. It just doesn't exist. Period. End of discussion.

There are muscles ABOVE the spine, then the spinal column, then immediately below that is the aorta/vena cava, and then you're in the chest. THERE IS NO EMPTY SPACE. Most people who think they've hit this "void" area are actually ABOVE the spine in the backstraps.

Also, most archers shoot WAY, WAY too far back. Shooting "right behind the crease of the shoulder" generally means you're way back in the chest, often in guts. You want to crowd the front of the animal, way up IN the meat of the shoulder. The scapula and the humerus create a "V" shape, opening with the top of the V pointing back to the tail of the deer. Your shot should be at the vertex of the V, WAY in the front of the animal. A shot placed there will kill them in sight. Every. Single. Time.

[2MANY]

A high shot simply allows the cavity to fill with blood longer before it spills out.

Poke a hole in the bottom of a water balloon then poke a hole in the top of a different one.
Which one bleeds out better?

[npaull]

 

[Mudman]

Agreed too much weight for 50lb draw.  Heavy is good but maybe try 400grains?  Super slow and whitetail likely will easily jump those shots.  I have had deer run like a bullet after kill shots, usually down hill.  If what you say is true it likely piled up close by and you simply couldn't find it.  They can disappear right in front of a guy.  Either way I agree with Bean "nothing goes to waste in nature"  just shame it got away.  Get on the horse, learn and ride again.

[Buzz2401]

Anybody who feels that as a percentage of shots taken at game the same amount of animals are wounded with either a bow or a gun is in a fantasy land.  Losing game is part of archery hunting, I feel if you know you hit an animal you should notch your tag because you have harvested an animal.  That is how many outfitters do it, and they do it because they know the animal is gonna die because they are the ones who find the bones next year or the rotten animal two weeks later.  I'm not bashing archery just get tired of archers trying to dodge the facts, to many times you hear "oh I hit it but it will live" or "oh rifle hunters lose animals also".  Archery's moto should be 60% of the time it works everytime.  Flame on.

[npaull]

Buzz that's because LOTS of archers take very irresponsible shots. I personally feel it's unethical to shoot at game with a bow beyond 30 yards. But it's not an opinion that'll win you a lot of love in compound bow circles...

[Buzz2401]

The problem is under the heat of the moment with the adrenaline flowing it's easy to make iffy decisions

[blackveltbowhunter]

So anyone who hunts with a gun doesnt have adrenaline flowing ? Iffy shots are taken by hunters with both weapons sometimes they pan out sometimes they don't. The difference is that because there is a larger margin for error more of the "iffy" shots taken with a rifle conclude with a dead animal.  Both weapons are extremely effective in the hands of skilled users.

" Losing game is part or archery hunting." Actually losing game can be part of ALL hunting. I have killed 2 bucks with my bow in late archery a week after gun season that had been shot presumably during late buck.  I have found dead bucks during gun season that were unrecovered. To be fair I have shot a bull with an arrow in it. And have plenty of stories of healed over broadheads and even full arrows.

If there is reason to suspect a likely fatal hit, I cut a tag whether it was a bow or gun.  But, I dont believe for one second that a blood draw equals a dead animal, so I will be leaving the judgement call up to the individual pulling the trigger and tracking.