INITIATIVE - 1491

[pianoman9701]

There have been mass murders forever. Crazy people and zealots will not be stopped by legislation. We will not make ourselves safer by forfeiting our rights. We can do better with reporting from trained mental health professionals and by eliminating killing zones in our schools and public places where murderers feel safe. But to put my rights in the hands of someone who may have an axe to grind against me or who has an anti-gun agenda, like my sister and niece, is ridiculous. That the government can come into my home and remove my guns and ammo without due process for 14 days is completely unconstitutional and tyrannous.

[lamrith]

There have been mass murders forever. Crazy people and zealots will not be stopped by legislation. We will not make ourselves safer by forfeiting our rights. We can do better with reporting from trained mental health professionals and by eliminating killing zones in our schools and public places where murderers feel safe. But to put my rights in the hands of someone who may have an axe to grind against me or who has an anti-gun agenda, like my sister and niece, is ridiculous. That the government can come into my home and remove my guns and ammo without due process for 14 days is completely unconstitutional and tyrannous.

and it will take you probably 6months to get them back IF you are able to hire a good enough lawyer to get the order removed, and the guns you get back will be missing accessories they may have had that "fell off" during the evidence process..

[WAcoyotehunter]

NICS denies over 90,000 individuals a year for attempting to illegally buy a gun. Police need to take that list and start knocking on doors. I guarantee they will find people who are prohibited from ownership in possession of guns.

Once that list is gone through every year and every felon/domestic abuser that attempts to buy a gun is arrested and their home striped of illegal guns then we can talk about adding more laws.

You would support that?  Would others on here support this idea?

[WAcoyotehunter]

 This is bad legistlation period! What would you suggest, WAcoyote, to keep Mercedes vans out of the hands of people intent on running people down with it?

Yeah, I would require them to have a valid drivers license and be trained to drive before they were able to legally drive a Mercedes van. 

I'm open to suggestions.  I wasn't pitching any ideas.  I just always here people talking about a mental health problem being at the root of the issue, but no one wants to address mental health to try to keep shootings from occuring

[Fungunnin]

NICS denies over 90,000 individuals a year for attempting to illegally buy a gun. Police need to take that list and start knocking on doors. I guarantee they will find people who are prohibited from ownership in possession of guns.

Once that list is gone through every year and every felon/domestic abuser that attempts to buy a gun is arrested and their home striped of illegal guns then we can talk about adding more laws.

You would support that?  Would others on here support this idea?

Yes ... I support them enforcing the laws already on the books. If you are a felon and you attempt to buy a gun then yes you should get a visit from a police officer.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[huntnphool]

 This is bad legistlation period! What would you suggest, WAcoyote, to keep Mercedes vans out of the hands of people intent on running people down with it?

Yeah, I would require them to have a valid drivers license and be trained to drive before they were able to legally drive a Mercedes van. 

 Would a valid license and training have prevented this?

[JimmyHoffa]

 This is bad legistlation period! What would you suggest, WAcoyote, to keep Mercedes vans out of the hands of people intent on running people down with it?

Yeah, I would require them to have a valid drivers license and be trained to drive before they were able to legally drive a Mercedes van. 

I'm open to suggestions.  I wasn't pitching any ideas.  I just always here people talking about a mental health problem being at the root of the issue, but no one wants to address mental health to try to keep shootings from occuring

I think you have to professionally diagnose the mental illness first.  You're stripping rights from someone based on an overprotective parent or a vengeful ex, etc.
But what does this lead to eventually--all mentally ill (defined by the gov) will be disarmed (only if they want to), but not contained.

[huntnphool]

What would you guys support then? 

Every time someone shoots the hell out of a crowd everybody (me included) says it wasn't the guns fault, it was the fault of the crazy person.  So, what should we do to keep guns away from people that should not have them?
 

I would support a change in the medical malpractice law that currently prevents doctors from disclosing personal information about their patients due to threat of litigation.  If a person is mentally unable to possess a firearm then the diagnosing physician should be required by law to not only report that individual to the appropriate court, but also be required to follow thru and determine when and if that person is ever able to again possess a firearm. 

The biggest problem that we as a nation face with gun control legislation is the fact that there is faction in our society that truly believe any attempt to regulate the ownership of firearms is ultimately a ploy which will lead to the total elimination of civilian firearms ownership.   Until that changes there will be very little any lawmaker, president or anyone else can actually do to regulate the ownership of firearms that isn't universally distrusted and resisted.

 The problem is it leaves individuals rights open to corruption, and at this point there is no way I'm trusting the government with it!

[huntnphool]

 This is bad legistlation period! What would you suggest, WAcoyote, to keep Mercedes vans out of the hands of people intent on running people down with it?

Yeah, I would require them to have a valid drivers license and be trained to drive before they were able to legally drive a Mercedes van. 

I'm open to suggestions.  I wasn't pitching any ideas.  I just always here people talking about a mental health problem being at the root of the issue, but no one wants to address mental health to try to keep shootings from occuring

I think you have to professionally diagnose the mental illness first.  You're stripping rights from someone based on an overprotective parent or a vengeful ex, etc.
But what does this lead to eventually--all mentally ill (defined by the gov) will be disarmed (only if they want to), but not contained.

Bingo!

[Mudman]

What would you do after we took all the guns away and these people continued to hurt people by other methods?  Knives, chemicals, bombs, cars!  Etc, etc.  Crazy is still crazy and only the foolish think gun control would solve crazy.

[JimmyHoffa]

What would you do after we took all the guns away and these people continued to hurt people by other methods?  Knives, chemicals, bombs, cars!  Etc, etc.  Crazy is still crazy and only the foolish think gun control would solve crazy.

Yeah, they could still buy machine tools or 3D printers.  If they want to do something, they'll do it. 

[lamrith]

I just always here people talking about a mental health problem being at the root of the issue, but no one wants to address mental health to try to keep shootings from occurring

I take issue with that.  The Pro-gun crowd is always talking about enforcing current laws fully, as well as the fact that most of these big events are done by mentally ill people.  It is the Anti gun legislators that keep pushing for more and more laws, but never once acknowledge the existing laws are not being fully enforced, or that there is a mental illness issue at all.  Murder is already illegal, making the tool used illegal does not change that fact.

Heck yes we also need to be investigating those denials as well.  There will be mistake identity on occasion with denials, but I am willing to bet the great majority will be prohibited people trying to sneak one thru.

That faction that does not trust government is growing by the day with the way our Govt is losing the trust of it's citizens thru one scandal and issue after another.  Govt tends to make a mess of everything whether for good intentions or not.  They have shown over time they cannot be trusted.

[Mudman]

Stock up and bury em for a rainy day.  Japan didn't invade and one reason was armed citizens.  This is a HUGE military advantage in time of war.  Comply with law but wait.  It wouldn't last.  Revolution would follow with the Gov. overreach that would follow.  Enforcement of this alone could trigger it.

[pianoman9701]

NICS denies over 90,000 individuals a year for attempting to illegally buy a gun. Police need to take that list and start knocking on doors. I guarantee they will find people who are prohibited from ownership in possession of guns.

Once that list is gone through every year and every felon/domestic abuser that attempts to buy a gun is arrested and their home striped of illegal guns then we can talk about adding more laws.

You would support that?  Would others on here support this idea?

Absolutely. If someone was denied by mistake, there's a good chance they're already in the system trying to clear their name and that would be obvious. Pierce Co. two years ago had something like 1700 illegal transfer requests and ignored all but a couple. If the bounces are checked and found to be felons or others precluded from purchasing, I have no problem having the cops serve warrants which support existing laws. I have a real problem with new laws being passed while the violations of existing ones are ignored, whether it's gun control, immigration law, political FEC regulations, national security breeches, whatever. The bigger issue right now is not that we don't have enough laws. It's that the laws we have only apply to the masses, not our "masters".

[huntnphool]

Stock up and bury em for a rainy day.  Japan didn't invade and one reason was armed citizens.  This is a HUGE military advantage in time of war.  Comply with law but wait.  It wouldn't last.  Revolution would follow with the Gov. overreach that would follow.  Enforcement of this alone could trigger it.

So your choice is "3" Defy the law and risk life in prison.  Remember in this scenario 97% of the population supports outlawing guns.  No revolution, no ground swell of remorse.  The people of the nation made the choice.

 Red herring