Etiquette / Scenario Question

[SeatoSummit88]

Hey Everyone,

  Hope the season is progressing well with all of you!  I had a quick question/opinion topic I wanted to post really quick.  I know a lot of you guys are really honest and voice your opinions well on this board; so I wanted to get your thoughts.  Even before the season started we had been looking in this area; seeing and not seeing elk during rifle deer and before.  There were probably 5-7 other vehicles that were seen within a 15 mile loop since October; we decided to continue to stay within the area where we had seen the best sign and of course, legal Bulls.  Since the opener, we had worked hard to get out extra early and stay on top of a spot we felt held some bulls (or at least a herd).  We respectfully parked off the main line and right near the beginning of a landing road, not blocking the road, but nudging out enough that people would see we were down below in that bottom.  Day two comes around and we are starting our march down the hill to the end of the landing to take a peek before daylight hits; 12 minutes after getting out of our vehicle and walking; another truck makes his way down the opposite facing landing; mind you, he is not parked and walking, but swiftly, cruising down the end of the road; stopping every 50 yards or so, then continuing on.  We could not believe he was driving all the way down the landing (and it was still morning)! One, wouldn't you have wanted to park at the top and walk down quietly; secondly, you could clearly see our rig parked across the way; and both landings look into the same bottom. In my mind, Hunter Etiquette stands for people making proper and appropriate decisions and giving plenty of space to hunters that are already in that area.  After he finally stopped; we heard the noise we did not want to hear; CRASH CRASH SNAP SNAP.  A herd, stampeding into the thick bottom below.  He took off, and we were pissed. We waited all day; not pressuring them and staying down wind behind stumps and thick brush; no elk!  Monday morning comes around, no elk, and less hunters out and about. We did not see them nor see any new sign; we figured this would be the day for no pressure and letting them get comfortable.  This is where my topic question comes into play.  It happened again; Tuesday morning we were parked right at the same spot; and anyone could clearly see our truck.  We were happy that all day, no one came down and looked at the other landing; we had two rigs back up and leave after seeing us.  About 1 hour before dark; another truck comes bombing down the opposite landing. Not stopping and walking down; not looking over 600 yards to the south and seeing our truck, and kindly turning around, but just driving to the very end.  Out hops two guys.  The driver walks back "UP" the hill where he came from; the passenger, posts up on a giant stump at the end of a landing; neither one looking around and seeing us across the draw; and neither one bothering to stay covered or be quiet. Not to mention we had picked the down wind side; so they were stinking up the whole draw. We were so angry; they busted us and never came out. We left furious.  I understand that we don't own area's.  We can't hold spots; and we did not have another vehicle parked on the top of the other landing to indicate we were down there; but still, shouldn't hunters know that if they see another vehicle or fellow hunters looking into the same bottom; that they should get out of that area.  This how my hunting partner and I were taught at least. 

  Do you guys think the people who drove down, should have turned around and left, after seeing us or our truck?  Do you think they should have at least walked down, to be generous of the other hunters? Just wanted to get opinions on here.

[treeclimber2852]

Hate to tell you this, but you gave away your spot...the GPS coordinates at the bottom just let the whole forum know about that draw. 

[Matth]

I probably would have turned around, if i noticed your pickup if not i would have continued on my way. this is one of the reasons that i quit clear cut hunting years ago. It fairly tough to expect that a person, or persons is going to post up on a clear cut for days at a time and not have other hunters visit the unit especially with the number of road hunter out this day and age. These other hunters don't have any idea what your doing, or seeing, or have seen they are just burning up gas cruising around in the woods. It would be a completely different story if they would have come in on the same side of the draw as you and driven around your pickup.

[scrapperdude]

That what happens on public land, happens to me all the time, very frustrating 

[SeatoSummit88]

Thanks Treeclimber... haha, whoops, I should have looked closer.  That's alright though... every other joe has been driving out that road anyways the last few days. 

Thanks for the other opinions.  That is the problem with hunting clear cuts...others can just drive up and look as well. However this area had timber and bottoms that we were looking in; plus we were not road hunting; we were parked and walking in and out of draws in the area.   

[tjthebest]

Sometimes when you are just looking for elk you don't notice other things in the woods. Like another person or vehicle. It would be my assumption that the people did not know you were there. I have had people walk 20yds in front of me with me sitting on a stump and they didnt see me.

[Chesapeake]

Them guys weren't trying to ruin your hunt. They were just doing their thing unaware of the impact to others. I think in your case you should have parked a rig on the second road similar to the first. Not blocking off an area to others, but making it obvious to others that someone is hunting that area. I believe most guys move along if they know the area is already covered.

[Buzz2401]

It is my belief that if you want to produce on public land you have to learn what the elk do when pressured because they will be pressured.  Hunting unpressured elk with a rifle is pretty easy.  Its the whole million guys driving around, shooting, *censored*ting, and running amuck that makes it hard.  As much as we would like there is no etiquette hunting season, we have to many people hunting and not enough space or animals for all. 

[SeatoSummit88]

Thanks guy!  Much appreciated on hearing your advice!  Maybe I should stop bitching and either pick up a bow and practice; or like Buzz said; find out where the nearby herds are going after pressure is applied.  Wish I had more scouting time prior to all the open seasons; so I could get down and learn the area better.  Modern Rifle is a cluster as we are all aware!, no matter what part of the state.

[huntingfool7]

Any general tag will have you accounting for other hunters.  It's part of the game.  Learn to hunt them where they're going.  You already have the spot where they are getting bounced from...where did they go?

[DOUBLELUNG]

I would turn around and leave, but I wouldn't expect a cut that can be driven into, to be productive for elk during general season during shooting hours - I would only be driving in there to walk into a preselected location out of sight of the roads and clearcut, where I would hope to see a legal elk during shooting hours.  It's hard, when you know the elk are using it and you are seeing elk outside of the season, but I just assume elk are going to be pressured out of anywhere that can be driven into, or is line of sight to an open road - even if it's full of fresh sign, odds are they are only there at night during hunting season.

I use vehicle accessible, visible open areas to rule out areas where the elk are unlikely to be.  However, I am likely to be fairly close by, hunting an area that is out of line of sight with a well-used trail or feeding area.   

[dominknows]

I know that spot you are talking about and that cutting receives a lot of pressure typically in the morning. To ask that no one hunt down that other road because you are hunting the other side is pretty ridiculous.  If you don't want someone else hunting down that road, park another vehicle on it or drop one person on it while you go around to the other side.  If they came down the road you were  actively hunting on that's a different story, I'd be a little upset.
Get out there before season, since 90% of the people who hunt in that area do not, you would know where there tendency to go is when they are down in that bottom spot.

My wife's opportunity to kill a bull opening morning in a clear cut was ruined by a guy who decided to drive this the lower road that goes halfway into the cutting before it was light enough to shoot.  I knew the bull was in there from the night before, luckily I live close enough to get out in the woods my fair share.  We watched him in the binos for 45 minutes in the dark with the rain pouring down on us, only to watch the elk start jogging the opposite direction just before light because of someone else being lazy, ignorant, or just plain stupid.  We caught them in the timber 45 minutes later only to be busted by another vehicle driving the road as they were preparing to cross, couldn't catch them before they reached the safety net of private land.  That pretty much sums up rifle season with drive in opportunities, you just have to learn to play the hand that is dealt to you or change weapon/area.

[buglebrush]

I tend to hunt miles from a road.  Problem solved.   

[SeatoSummit88]

No, you guys are right.  The best bet is to be somewhere, where everyone else is not. No cars/loud noises/extra boots on the ground, equals more opportunities for elk to feel comfortable sticking to their normal routine and coming out.  It is a bummer to hear different people on here talk about the same issue; small hunting areas and a crap ton of hunters.  But also, as some of you pointed out, leave the area/change weapon/etc.  All in all, I wish we would have had another rig parked on the opposite entrance to the landing. I am sure most people would agree that seeing a vehicle, should indicate that, ok, there are people working this area, lets move on.  No way to get away from traffic; but there are ways to work around it!  I like hearing everyone's advice

[pianoman9701]

  Anytime you're close to roads in a public area, there are going to be others there, as well. Whether or not they see you or are considerate, it makes no difference. You can either hike into a more remote area or plan on other people and use them to your advantage in pushing animals to you.

[theleo]

If you're going to hunt an area like that you need to figure out the escape route the elk use and hunt that. Plan on the pressure being there and be surprised when it's not.

[Stein]

I understand that we don't own area's.  We can't hold spots......... shouldn't hunters know that if they see another vehicle or fellow hunters looking into the same bottom; that they should get out of that area.

Honestly, I think the first statement you made is the right one.  You can't park somewhere and expect that holds the large area just for you.

Courtesy comes into play for some and they may give you some room, but public land is just that - I have absolutely no expectation that anyone will give me an inch of space and then are pleasantly surprised if they do.  I also don't get mad - I don't give them the permission to anger me.

Others mentioned that the other way to play it is know what is going to happen and post where the animals will go to.  This is the most underappreciated strategy for public land hunting.  If there is a draw that holds animals with a road next to it, where will they go for cover when noisy guys park as close as they can and walk noisily into the area?

[MADMAX]

OLD REPOST from 07
I'm sure nothings changed in GMU 520
Winston late hunt dbags


It will be a memory that lasts for years.

I have had two younger guys I have been teaching to bowhunt elk,
I am not trying to be holier than thou but I am trying to instill some ethics/techniques on marginal shot attempts (targets vs critters, they are great shots on the range), working with other hunters to make a plan, when jumping a band of elk, practicing good land-owner relations, etc.
So here I am with my 21 yr old ,,almost son in law,, up in the winston unit, so far had a great weekend going, we  jumped 2 groups on friday up in the 200 line Port Blakely area, decide we will hunt the last day down in MT ST Helens tree farm 1100 line area, spotted a herd a mile  or so away glassing, went looking for the road to the clearcut they were feeding in to put a stalk on ,,,,,,,,take a turn down on a road in the truck  and there are 4 bulls busting off through the timber and cutting right along the road down hill from us in the reprod about 25-30 yds away and below, the kid did great, we bailed out of the truck , got on them and moved along side them stopping drawing and waiting as they were acting like wanted to move upslope , never got a clear shot,,, head, neck only, he stays at it and they move off across the clearcut, I go get the truck to go down and try to cut them off on a different skid road towards where they are heading, the kid is still on them and they are now about a 1/2 mile from where we started when we jumped them, now here is the vent/rant.
A dark green late model toyota with canopy on it and 2 guys are on the shoulder in a wide spot they see me coming in my truck, the guy sitting on the tailgate almost gets thrown/bounced off as the driver hauls butt and cuts me off to rush at the bulls down the skid road I am heading to and the kid with me is on behind these bulls, now I understand public land hunting and do not really blame them for cutting off another truck, but,,,,,,the kid that is with me is about 75 yds behind and to the right of the bulls on a skid road in the open, the toyota with these 2 genuis's in it almost runs him over to get ahead of him and rush at those bulls and yes there was no missing that he was there , it was a pretty wide open cut at that point just grass and some slash, needless to say I am totally PO'd and let the one guy that was standing there when I walked up know about it.
The bulls off course were blown across the river into the Margaret unit.
To those guys in that dark green toyota if your reading this try and take a course in hunter ethics and try and get along with others in the field a little more, you showed the worse behavior for archery hunters I've seen in years., we would have gladly teamed with you to stalk those animals !

[bracer40]

Never hunted the wet side for elk, but wow! Trucks needed to run elk down/cut them off in order to hunt them?!?

[MADMAX]

and bowhunting to boot
10 years almost and still peeses me off

[rosscrazyelk]

I have had a guy come sit no more than 25 yards from me. See me and just wave at me.  Just when I was about to loose it he leaves.. about 15 minutes.. he paid the price however. When I into him on the way out in the dark.
He said he was just keeping an eye out on a bull for his friend. But he really wanted to hunt the spike that was with him.. needless to say the next morning I went in and found that spike and killed it.