875 yard .308 Elk kill

[yakimanoob]

The fact that no one is perfect does not refute the ethical imperative to be as sure as you can be. 

No one here would argue that it's ethical to take a shot on an animal if you're not sure your scope is sighted in.  Saying that it's impossible to know with 100% certainty that your scope didn't break between the range and the field is, technically speaking, missing the point.

As a side note: the guy in the video does indeed put in a lot of trigger time, as demonstrated by his many videos on reloading, honing his setup, etc. 

[Okanagan]

Why would anybody want to get to 20 yards when rifle hunting?

Because I couldn't get to 10 yards.

Closer range increases the odds of a hit by any shooter-- and vice versa.  This is mere reality.

Every shot at any range has variables, but the closer to the target, the more the shooter can control or compensate for variables, and the less influence the variables have on a vital hit.

I tend to think somewhat differently in many instances. At 10 yards the odds of an animal detecting my presence as I'm about to shoot is much higher than if I'm several hundred yards away. A vast majority of the big game animals I've shot were not aware of my presence, and I consider that to be of significant value in not having to rush a shot in fear of the animal spooking.

Valid point to a limited extent, but it is introducing another variable besides distance to target. 

Closer range increases the odds of a hit by ANY shooter-- and vice versa, assuming shots at identical or similar targets of course.  That remains  reality.  My bad not to spell out the unstated assumption.  If we start changing the nature of the target, then we aren't controlling the experiment so that it measures the influence of distance to target on ability to hit.  And distance to the target is THE issue.

Moving targets are a related but different topic, as is the nervousness factor of different shooters at close range.  Movement of a target at 10 yards is less critical in most hunting contexts than movement at 875 yards. 

FWIW close can be done, and done without taking wild shots at terrified fleeing animals.  I powder burned my first rifle killed bull elk.  Killed another 6x6 bull walking slowly unaware of me at 12 yards, a large bull moose standing still at about 7 feet, black bear standing still at 6 yds. , 180 class mule deer walking slowly unaware of me at 11 yds., etc. all with rifle.  All of these were hunting on foot, no tree stands etc.  All on public land, over the counter tags, general season, several of these in WA State.  Also killed a bull elk at 690 yds. when it was getting away wounded.  I prefer the ten yard shot over 690 but we have agreed to disagree as to whether getting close increases or decreases a hunter's odds of hitting where he or she aims.   

It's all good and we all enjoy hunting.

[Jpmiller]

Just don't start walking away from the animal so you can take a longer shot.

[mountainman]

Just don't start walking away from the animal so you can take a longer shot.

have to agree for sure. But with the $$$'s in video sales, many won't head that advice

[Jonathan_S]

Why would anybody want to get to 20 yards when rifle hunting?

Because I couldn't get to 10 yards.

Closer range increases the odds of a hit by any shooter-- and vice versa.  This is mere reality.

Every shot at any range has variables, but the closer to the target, the more the shooter can control or compensate for variables, and the less influence the variables have on a vital hit.

Yeah I think I'd rather take a shot at 100 than 20.

[Thefishguy77]

875?  Let me go get my slingshot.


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[Elkcollector82]

For every successful kill, how many wounded animals are there out there? Some people can do it every time because they have the knowledge, experience, and equipment. Others... flinging lead.


Like someone else touched on, I'm more impressed with a 20 yard shot and the ability to get that close. If you want to show off your skills, do it on paper or steel.

Ok Mr ethical. How high does your bullet hit its mark at 20 yards versus the 100 yards you probably have it sighted in at. Those inches matter to. Still gonna miss vitals at 20 yards if you don't know how high your bullet hits at 20 versus 875. It's all about trigger time. Also how tight of a group the guy has his gun sighted in at. Most people are happy with a one inch group at 100 yards. But you stretch that 1" group out to 300,400,500 yards. Whatever your comfort skill level range is. You talking 14-18 grouping out at that far. "Roughly" that's ethical under your book. Right? Cause your shooting a one inch group at hundred so your good to go out to 500. Or whatever your comfort skill level is. Wrong. You be shooting wounded animals all day long. Long range shooters have their rifle dialed in to pretty much drive tacks at 100. Shooting the same hole. So really before you throw stones look at your own setup. Then when you realize your grouping at a hundred is 1" or more. Go ahead open mouth and insert foot.

Rant over.

[JLS]

Ok Mr ethical. How high does your bullet hit its mark at 20 yards versus the 100 yards you probably have it sighted in at. Those inches matter to. Still gonna miss vitals at 20 yards if you don't know how high your bullet hits at 20 versus 875.

I highly doubt the difference in trajectory at 20 yards versus 100 (assuming 100 yard zero) is going to make anyone miss the vitals on an elk.  Should one miss vitals at 20 yards, the are much bigger problems afoot.

[kentrek]

Ok Mr ethical. How high does your bullet hit its mark at 20 yards versus the 100 yards you probably have it sighted in at. Those inches matter to. Still gonna miss vitals at 20 yards if you don't know how high your bullet hits at 20 versus 875.

I highly doubt the difference in trajectory at 20 yards versus 100 (assuming 100 yard zero) is going to make anyone miss the vitals on an elk.  Should one miss vitals at 20 yards, the are much bigger problems afoot.

Typically youl be one inch high at 20 if sighted in @ 100.....

The problem with close range shots has nothing to do with trajectory, the problem with long range also has nothing to do with trajectory

[Taco280AI]

For every successful kill, how many wounded animals are there out there? Some people can do it every time because they have the knowledge, experience, and equipment. Others... flinging lead.


Like someone else touched on, I'm more impressed with a 20 yard shot and the ability to get that close. If you want to show off your skills, do it on paper or steel.

Ok Mr ethical. How high does your bullet hit its mark at 20 yards versus the 100 yards you probably have it sighted in at. Those inches matter to. Still gonna miss vitals at 20 yards if you don't know how high your bullet hits at 20 versus 875. It's all about trigger time. Also how tight of a group the guy has his gun sighted in at. Most people are happy with a one inch group at 100 yards. But you stretch that 1" group out to 300,400,500 yards. Whatever your comfort skill level range is. You talking 14-18 grouping out at that far. "Roughly" that's ethical under your book. Right? Cause your shooting a one inch group at hundred so your good to go out to 500. Or whatever your comfort skill level is. Wrong. You be shooting wounded animals all day long. Long range shooters have their rifle dialed in to pretty much drive tacks at 100. Shooting the same hole. So really before you throw stones look at your own setup. Then when you realize your grouping at a hundred is 1" or more. Go ahead open mouth and insert foot.

Rant over.

How many inches off is my bullet at 20 yards?  It isn't "inches" off

And what is this 1" @ 100 yard group you speak of? Rather than making stupid assumptions how about you look up my rifle and the proven groups I shoot with it. Little hint, I average .36" with my RBros 280AI and fixed 6x scope. And when I go shooting I'll take it in the mountains for practice and shoot at a target I set up, or rocks generally for fun. I'll practice out to 600max because I have zero desire to shoot beyond that at all, just personal preference.

Any more off the wall assumptions?


I think a real problem is when you have people who think they're long range shooters when they're not, especially when they think - or maybe even actually have a long range setup. Or when making a long range shot on video is more important for the bragging rights than it is to get meat in your freezer. Or when people think a 308 is a good choice for 900 elk. Or a 260 is a good choice for 900 elk. Or a 243 is a good choice at 700 yards. They aren't

[Bob33]

Ok Mr ethical. How high does your bullet hit its mark at 20 yards versus the 100 yards you probably have it sighted in at. Those inches matter to. Still gonna miss vitals at 20 yards if you don't know how high your bullet hits at 20 versus 875.

I highly doubt the difference in trajectory at 20 yards versus 100 (assuming 100 yard zero) is going to make anyone miss the vitals on an elk.  Should one miss vitals at 20 yards, the are much bigger problems afoot.

Typically youl be one inch high at 20 if sighted in @ 100.....

The problem with close range shots has nothing to do with trajectory, the problem with long range also has nothing to do with trajectory

With a sight at least 1.5 inches above the bore, a gun sighted in one inch high at 100 will still be slightly below point of aim at 20 yards (at the muzzle it is 1.5 inches low, and generally first crosses between 30 and 35 yards while rising), but not anywhere near enough to miss the vitals of a big game animal.

[cbond3318]

Nice! quality shot on a quality animal! Congrats to the hunter!

[JDHasty]

For every successful kill, how many wounded animals are there out there? Some people can do it every time because they have the knowledge, experience, and equipment. Others... flinging lead.


Like someone else touched on, I'm more impressed with a 20 yard shot and the ability to get that close. If you want to show off your skills, do it on paper or steel.

Careful.  Next thing you are going to have someone say all you have to do is hit them in the heart lung area w/a 308 and you have a dead elk.  Especially if they are shooting a bullet the manufacturer of that bullet says is not a reliable big game bullet.

That is not necessarily true, if velocity has dropped off to the point the bullet no longer expands an elk can be hit through the heart w/a 30 caliber bullet and not die right away. 

[Jonathan_S]

Are you high? If you want to say a .308 isn't LR medicine, that's one thing. But saying you can hit it in the heart and lose the animal isn't your argument

[jasnt]

Even a 22 cal hole threw the heart would be a dead elk.

Also a 1 moa rifle should shoot 5" at 500 with out wind. If your getting an 18" group at 500 you may need a lesson On parallax. I've never known a long range guy to be happy with a moa gun. I average 2.5"-3" at 500 with wind but still not happy with that. Always chasing that better group.