Barrel question?

[klickriverchromer]

Looking at a couple of different rifles. One is a steel bull barrel and the other is a carbon fiber wrapped barrel. Is there a big advantage to either. From what I'm told the carbon fiber wrapped barrel gives up accuracy for weight? Is this true? The manufacturer guarantee 1/2in moa @ 1000 yards so they can't be that inaccurate

[BULLBLASTER]

Weight and price are the main noticeable differences 

[theleo]

They're kind of at different ends of the spectrum. The bull barrel should be stiffer which should give you better accuracy. The carbon wrapped (I'm guessing a Christianson Arms rifle) uses the carbon to make up for some of the lost rigidity by them using the minimum amount of steel they can to make a safe barrel. Advantages can be disadvantages depending on what your looking to do with the rifle.   

[lord grizzly]

I think your a little mixed up. Carbon wrapped. Barrels are designed to retain accuracy at less weight. Been around a bunch of them, building one now. The early ones had some issues but the quality ones out there now are pretty dialed

[theleo]

I think your a little mixed up. Carbon wrapped. Barrels are designed to retain accuracy at less weight. Been around a bunch of them, building one now. The early ones had some issues but the quality ones out there now are pretty dialed

Are they on par with the high end bull barrels these days? To my knowledge they still weren't quite there. By advantages being disadvantages depending on the situation I was meaning situations where you wanted the weight from a bull barrel so you could spot your hits varminting or taking them longer to heat up. The carbon will cool quicker meaning you can pick the rifle up sooner and the weight saving for packing up it mountains is undeniable, but can be punishing on the recoil.

[h20hunter]

Based on my research i would go with Proof Research. I condidered it for my AR10 build.

[b23]

For me, the only real advantage they offer is aesthetics.  Also, if the stock you are using has a large barrel channel from the previous barrel and you want something that weighs less and without going to a smaller contour barrel, for less weight, without it looking like a hot dog sitting in a canoe, the wrapped barrel can help that problem. Or, for some people, they like the barrel diameter to match the muzzle brake, but don't want the extra weight of a larger contour barrel, a carbon wrapped barrel will fit their needs.  And, they have a certain "cool" factor.  Not sure if the "cool" factor is worth double the price of a steel barrel, but they do look cool. 

I know a gunsmith that bought a Proof Research barrel for his personal rifle so he would know first hand how they performed before he started recommending them on customers builds.  First barrel he got from them was a turd so he sent it back and Proof inspected it and agreed so they sent him a replacement.  Last I knew, the second barrel wasn't doing much better.

[jay.sharkbait]

I'm not convinced. There are rifles out there shooting great with these barrels, but I'll say that the credit should go to the gunsmith as much as the barrel.

I've seen the different manufacturing processes and every one has the fibers going in the wrong direction and too resin rich. Also barrel steel expands and contracts at a much different rate.

[lord grizzly]

I'm not sure I agree that the advantage is ascetics. For example I hunt almost exclusively in wilderness areas and take everything I need on my back. The rifle I'm building right now with a Christensen barrel will come in just over 8 pounds with optics with the intent being a 1000 yard mountain rifle. Realistically my average range will be 800 and under. The same contour barrel in steel would be well over 10 maybe even 11 pounds. I've target shot carbon rifles out over 800 next to steel barrels and they'll shoot the same. A bench rest gun I'd go steel for the extra weight, a hunting rifle I see no reason other than price not to go carbon

[lord grizzly]

Another aspect that's often overlooked is Ive met very few people in this world who's guns can't shoot better than them. For your average shooter a difference if there is one between carbon and steel would be negligible. Maybe your top match shooters in the country could tell you the difference off a bench but you on top of a mountain it took you all day to pack to the top of won't. I do agree the gun smith makes a big difference as well

[b23]

You could build a steel barreled gun that weighs the same and have the same capabilities or more, for less money, so what are you really gaining?

I just had a 7mm Blaser built that will have no problem taking game at 1000 yards.  It has a 26in. #4 fluted barrel and muzzle brake, NF 5.5-22x50 scope and factory laminated wood stock and it weighs 10 1/2lbs.  Different stock, different scope, and it would easily be in the 8 1/2lb range and likely less.

You can't compare the weight of a 1in diameter CF barrel to a 1in. diameter steel barrel.  You peel the wrap of that barrel and you may be shocked how small of a contour the liner actually is.

[MtnMuley]

A carbon wrapped barrel is only as good as what the carbon is wrapped around.

[lord grizzly]

There is no doubt the steel in a carbon wrapped barrel is incredibly thin, thus the carbon wrap. That's kinda the point. High end glass is heavy so I would contend no you couldn't get the rifle I'm building at the same weight with steel

[lord grizzly]

How many of you have shot a carbon fiber barrel off the same rest as a steel barrel at distance?

[jay.sharkbait]

How many of you have shot a carbon fiber barrel off the same rest as a steel barrel at distance?

I've shot a 300 WM Nemo with a carbon barrel and a 2010 from the same spot on same day at a mile.

[lord grizzly]

How'd they do?

[Bill W]

I'd like to see how they came up with a 1/2 MOA at 1K yards guarantee.   Do they have a 1K tunnel to remove the variables so it mainly the rifle that gets tested.

[jay.sharkbait]

How'd they do?

It wasn't a fair comparison. The 2010 was better, but I think that was the rifle fitting me better and that I had more time shooting the 2010.

[Karl Blanchard]

Tagging.  I'm running a Hells Canyon Armory Carbon this year and it's pretty impressive so far.  Had to rush to get her up and running for the season but so far it has been light, extremely accurate, and a pleasure to shoot.

[7mmstalker]

I'm not convinced. There are rifles out there shooting great with these barrels, but I'll say that the credit should go to the gunsmith as much as the barrel.

I've seen the different manufacturing processes and every one has the fibers going in the wrong direction and too resin rich. Also barrel steel expands and contracts at a much different rate.

Good points.
The care and precision of the chambering cut and barrel fitting to the action have a big impact on accuracy.
Anybody who has auto mechanical repair experience knows that materials of different density like aluminum/steel have expansion rates that change the dimensions measurably. I am sure that  the extreme heat and pressure of a rifle barrel in field shooting (versus slow fire bench shooting) would really tweak a composite barrel. For a barbeque gun or target rifle, the composite barrel sounds cool, with a capital C!
We probably won't see carbon wrapped barrels taking over competition match rifles, the name of the game is consistency, and a barrel of stable material is more predictable than a lighter barrel.

[MtnMuley]

I don't think that any will argue that from a competition standpoint on carbon barrels.  As for 15 miles in on a backcountry hunt, that's a different story. For me it sure is at least.

[Reidus]

What are the thermal expansion coefficients of carbon? Of steel?    They're way different!

So glue them together and heat and cool them? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Carbon fiber is also an insulator. Proof claims they have developed a resin that transfers heat 150% better than copper. So how come they dont feel cold when you touch the barrel?
"I shot a few times and the barrel still felt cool to the touch"  well ya cuz it trapped the heat inside and you'll burn out your throat twice as fast. How cold or hot something feels is directly proportional to how well it tranfers heat. If they do transfer heat better than copper it should feel a heck of a lot colder than copper pipe on a cold morning. Heat transfer with carbon is also different with the fiber vs crosswise to the fiber.

I think you could build a more accurate with a steel barrel vs a carbon barrel with both being the same weight but most people wont notice the difference.  So it really just comes down to the cool factor.

[lord grizzly]

Again, have you shot many of them?

[MtnMuley]

I think you could build a more accurate with a steel barrel vs a carbon barrel with both being the same weight but most people wont notice the difference.  So it really just comes down to the cool factor.

They're not going to be the same weight though. That's the problem and reason I chose carbon wrapped. Nothing to do with a "cool factor", but everything to do with having a comfortable rifle to pack all fall.

[MichaelJ]

Karl just turned me onto this thread 

I've been doing R&D on my carbon barrels with a composites engineer for close to 3 years now.  Whoever said that manufacturing processes of modern carbon barrels have the wrong fiber orientation and too resin rich is DEAD ON!

My barrels have a Rock Creek 5R Cut Rifled liner that doesn't get any thinner than .650 at the muzzle and weight about on par with a #3 sporter contour +/- 4 oz.

As far as the technology goes, I'll refrain from speaking of others and focus on my own barrels.  First up is fiber orientation.  Every layer of composite (notice i didn't say Carbon!) material on my barrel is a continuous piece from tennon to crown.  Each barrel as a single seam running the length of the barrel.  We also do everything we can with our prep work to ensure that the barrel steel doesn't slip or contract/expand at vastly different rates than the composites material.  Next come resin ratios... most carbon barrels have around a 65:35 Resin to Fiber ratio.  Resin is a great insulator and traps heat.  My barrels are in the 25:75 resin/fiber ratio.

We focus on two things with my barrels.  Rigidity (comes from better fiber orientation), and harmonics.  When you think of a graphine/carbon fiber fishing rod, it transfer vibrations incredibly well....  Thats the opposite effect you want with a barrel.  You want harmonic dampening not amplification/transfer.  Thus we don't use 100% carbon fiber.

Our barrels are also cured with no "Induced stress".  A very well known carbon barrel manufacturer at one point in time (I believe they still continue this practice) "caps" their barrel with a stainless barrel cap.  And they do it while inducing tension into the barrel. Engineering principles states that material under tension is more rigid.  But what happens to that tension when barrels heat up and the materials expand at different rates?  It creates an unpredictable reaction.

As far as carbon trapping heat.... that's a myth.  Formula 1 cars use CF brake rotors because it dissipates heat so much better than steel.  It's the resin ratio that is key!  My barrels kick off so much heat you get a mirage after 7-10 shots and that carbon will be hotter to the touch than the stainless barrel tennon around the chamber.  That's the biggest issue for me and using them in matches.  High volume shot strings and mirage is a bad combination.

I quit chasing the weight savings on carbon barrels awhile ago.  I could go thinner on contours without issue, but the fact of the matter is with a 7 lb base rifle weight, I can change my grip pressure and EASILY throw a round 1/2MOA sideways one direction or another.  The rifle itself is extremely accurate, accuracy is not a function of weight....  but light weight rifles are harder to shoot more accurately as a shooter.  If you want to bang animals at 750 and in, you're probably fine with a sub 9 lb well built hunting rifle.  Stretching it further than that and you better be on your A game!  I prefer a 9.5-10.5 lb gun for long range work.  Its worth the extra weight.... you pack 6+ lbs of spotter/tripod up the mountain to up your hunting ability, that extra 1-2 lbs for the added killing ability is well worth it.

Most of my carbon long range rifles end up 7-7.5 lbs base rifle weight with a muzzle brake and 26" barrel.

And building a steel barreled "long range" rifle that weights in at that 7 lb mark sucks!  Who likes to spend $3k+ on a gun that has a barrel that opens up from .5 MOA to 1.5 MOA after 6-7 shots?  If you're shooting long range, you need to be shooting a lot, and waiting 15-20 minutes for a sporter contoured barrel to cool down after a few shots is retarded...  I won't do it lol

Hope this helps some of you! 

Mike

[Karl Blanchard]

Mine is a trued up rem 700 action and it shoots in the .3 and I haven't even really dove into any serious load developement   

[lord grizzly]

Hells canyon, have you started selling your barrels yet or are you still just doing full builds?

[MichaelJ]

Hells canyon, have you started selling your barrels yet or are you still just doing full builds?

I really hate to sell them as blanks but I believe that time will be here in 2017. 

Mike

[lord grizzly]

Guess I'll stay tuned. May have to pick one up for the next build

[h20hunter]

Mine is a trued up rem 700 action and it shoots in the .3 and I haven't even really dove into any serious load developement 

That's a sexy shooter for sure!

[Karl Blanchard]

Karl just turned me onto this thread 

I've been doing R&D on my carbon barrels with a composites engineer for close to 3 years now.  Whoever said that manufacturing processes of modern carbon barrels have the wrong fiber orientation and too resin rich is DEAD ON!

My barrels have a Rock Creek 5R Cut Rifled liner that doesn't get any thinner than .650 at the muzzle and weight about on par with a #3 sporter contour +/- 4 oz.

As far as the technology goes, I'll refrain from speaking of others and focus on my own barrels.  First up is fiber orientation.  Every layer of composite (notice i didn't say Carbon!) material on my barrel is a continuous piece from tennon to crown.  Each barrel as a single seam running the length of the barrel.  We also do everything we can with our prep work to ensure that the barrel steel doesn't slip or contract/expand at vastly different rates than the composites material.  Next come resin ratios... most carbon barrels have around a 65:35 Resin to Fiber ratio.  Resin is a great insulator and traps heat.  My barrels are in the 25:75 resin/fiber ratio.

We focus on two things with my barrels.  Rigidity (comes from better fiber orientation), and harmonics.  When you think of a graphine/carbon fiber fishing rod, it transfer vibrations incredibly well....  Thats the opposite effect you want with a barrel.  You want harmonic dampening not amplification/transfer.  Thus we don't use 100% carbon fiber.

Our barrels are also cured with no "Induced stress".  A very well known carbon barrel manufacturer at one point in time (I believe they still continue this practice) "caps" their barrel with a stainless barrel cap.  And they do it while inducing tension into the barrel. Engineering principles states that material under tension is more rigid.  But what happens to that tension when barrels heat up and the materials expand at different rates?  It creates an unpredictable reaction.

As far as carbon trapping heat.... that's a myth.  Formula 1 cars use CF brake rotors because it dissipates heat so much better than steel.  It's the resin ratio that is key!  My barrels kick off so much heat you get a mirage after 7-10 shots and that carbon will be hotter to the touch than the stainless barrel tennon around the chamber.  That's the biggest issue for me and using them in matches.  High volume shot strings and mirage is a bad combination.

I quit chasing the weight savings on carbon barrels awhile ago.  I could go thinner on contours without issue, but the fact of the matter is with a 7 lb base rifle weight, I can change my grip pressure and EASILY throw a round 1/2MOA sideways one direction or another.  The rifle itself is extremely accurate, accuracy is not a function of weight....  but light weight rifles are harder to shoot more accurately as a shooter.  If you want to bang animals at 750 and in, you're probably fine with a sub 9 lb well built hunting rifle.  Stretching it further than that and you better be on your A game!  I prefer a 9.5-10.5 lb gun for long range work.  Its worth the extra weight.... you pack 6+ lbs of spotter/tripod up the mountain to up your hunting ability, that extra 1-2 lbs for the added killing ability is well worth it.

Most of my carbon long range rifles end up 7-7.5 lbs base rifle weight with a muzzle brake and 26" barrel.

And building a steel barreled "long range" rifle that weights in at that 7 lb mark sucks!  Who likes to spend $3k+ on a gun that has a barrel that opens up from .5 MOA to 1.5 MOA after 6-7 shots?  If you're shooting long range, you need to be shooting a lot, and waiting 15-20 minutes for a sporter contoured barrel to cool down after a few shots is retarded...  I won't do it lol

Hope this helps some of you! 

Mike

  great post Mike!  Often times I think we absorb too much internet chatter and don't seek out real info from the real pro's who are figuring all this stuff out and making it work

[Karl Blanchard]

Mine is a trued up rem 700 action and it shoots in the .3 and I haven't even really dove into any serious load developement 

That's a sexy shooter for sure!

  thanks man, but what do you think of the rifle?   

[MichaelJ]

Guess I'll stay tuned. May have to pick one up for the next build

Sent you a PM.

I'm just here to help Karl   Lot of bad info out there and not all carbon barrels are equals!

Mike

[Karl Blanchard]

Guess I'll stay tuned. May have to pick one up for the next build

Sent you a PM.

I'm just here to help Karl   Lot of bad info out there and not all carbon barrels are equals!

Mike

  well I appreciate it.  I wanted to dive in but I'm just a knuckle dragging trigger puller with poor grammar.  Needed someone to drop some truth up in here!  I'm gonna copy and paste that post for future reference

[Magnum_Willys]

Been looking at carbon barrels for Lapua build to keep total weight under 10#.
Options include Fierce, Christensen, and Proof Research.   Talked to several leading builders who said they can't get proof barrels down to .5 moa.  Christensen's 1 moa rifle is $2995 but their .5 moa rifle is nearly double that. Proofs own .5 moa rifle is at least $1000 more than that.

I Can get proofs barrel via stockys now for $775.  Slap that on a deviant action And maybe you can put together a shooter?  As a hunter Im concerned with weight and first and second shot accuracy.  Carbon saves a couple pounds.   A 9.5# rifle w/optics isn't bad , an 11.5 # rifle is a beast !

Would like to find a .5 moa carbon option for under 4500 ?   

[Karl Blanchard]

Been looking at carbon barrels for Lapua build to keep total weight under 10#.
Options include Fierce, Christensen, and Proof Research.   Talked to several leading builders who said they can't get proof barrels down to .5 moa.  Christensen's 1 moa rifle is $2995 but their .5 moa rifle is nearly double that. Proofs own .5 moa rifle is at least $1000 more than that.

I Can get proofs barrel via stockys now for $775.  Slap that on a deviant action And maybe you can put together a shooter?  As a hunter Im concerned with weight and first and second shot accuracy.  Carbon saves a couple pounds.   A 9.5# rifle w/optics isn't bad , an 11.5 # rifle is a beast !

Would like to find a .5 moa carbon option for under 4500 ?

  the man to talk to is posting in this thread.  Shoot Mike at Hells Canyon Armory a message.  He is pumping out his own carbon barrels and they are next level.  He's right in your wheel house price wise, local, and is just a stand up human.  You can't go wrong

[Magnum_Willys]

Will do ! Thx

[Reidus]

MichaelJ, what you're saying is that you can build a 7lb gun that'll shoot 1/2 moa and do a 7-10 shot string with little to no affect on accuracy?
How does barrel life compare to a standard barrel?

[Reidus]

Mine is a trued up rem 700 action and it shoots in the .3 and I haven't even really dove into any serious load developement 

What caliber?

[hogslayer]

Been looking at carbon barrels for Lapua build to keep total weight under 10#.
Options include Fierce, Christensen, and Proof Research.   Talked to several leading builders who said they can't get proof barrels down to .5 moa.  Christensen's 1 moa rifle is $2995 but their .5 moa rifle is nearly double that. Proofs own .5 moa rifle is at least $1000 more than that.

I Can get proofs barrel via stockys now for $775.  Slap that on a deviant action And maybe you can put together a shooter?  As a hunter Im concerned with weight and first and second shot accuracy.  Carbon saves a couple pounds.   A 9.5# rifle w/optics isn't bad , an 11.5 # rifle is a beast !

Would like to find a .5 moa carbon option for under 4500 ?

I was hoping that Michael would find this.  My wife isn't on Hunt-WA so i can brag away!  I am also having Hells Canyon Armory build a custom for me ( actually 2).  I went with the Lone Peak Titanium action which saved a lot of weight.  It is the same price as a Defiance but half the weight and they are getting some really good reviews.  Ryan Avery just did a solid review on it on Rokslide.  What is really cool is the fact you can call Michael and ask him any questions about the process and what other things you might need.  Its been awesome.  And i came in a little less than you were thinking.....The hardest part is waiting.  Even though a 6 month turn around is pretty fast. 

[MichaelJ]

Been looking at carbon barrels for Lapua build to keep total weight under 10#.
Options include Fierce, Christensen, and Proof Research.   Talked to several leading builders who said they can't get proof barrels down to .5 moa.  Christensen's 1 moa rifle is $2995 but their .5 moa rifle is nearly double that. Proofs own .5 moa rifle is at least $1000 more than that.

I Can get proofs barrel via stockys now for $775.  Slap that on a deviant action And maybe you can put together a shooter?  As a hunter Im concerned with weight and first and second shot accuracy.  Carbon saves a couple pounds.   A 9.5# rifle w/optics isn't bad , an 11.5 # rifle is a beast !

Would like to find a .5 moa carbon option for under 4500 ?

Shoot me an email at HCARifles@gmail.com and I'll get you an estimate! I guarantee 1/2MOA accuracy and 7-7.5 lb rifle base weight. Honestly for a Lapua I'd build an 8-8.5 lb base rifle weight. You'll be much happier at the distances capable with that caliber! Defiance is currently 9 months out on actions, I build off a lot of Stillers and they're top notch! And they're in stock

Another great advantage to carbon barrels is you don't add much weight with LONG barrels! Could run a 28-30" barrel no problem and it will still have its balance point right at the recoil lug or close to it. They shoulder and balance great.

Lone Peak is great but they aren't doing anything with a lapua bolt face yet...

Mike


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[MichaelJ]

MichaelJ, what you're saying is that you can build a 7lb gun that'll shoot 1/2 moa and do a 7-10 shot string with little to no affect on accuracy?
How does barrel life compare to a standard barrel?

Barrel life will be similar to standard steel barrels. It dissipates heat great but the initial temps of powder ignition are the same and in a hunting gun you're not seeing super high shot strings anyways. Powder selection and how hot your load is is a much more deciding factor.

And absolutely. My barrels will open up from .3ish MOA to .75ish MOA when they get really warm (10+ shots) but they'll hold that .75MOA all day long.

Built a 280Ackley for a guy that ran a 20 shot group one after the other and it went right at 1MOA.... considering he shoots off a sandbag with no rearbag and factoring in shooter consistency that's pretty solid if you ask me.


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[Karl Blanchard]

MichaelJ, what you're saying is that you can build a 7lb gun that'll shoot 1/2 moa and do a 7-10 shot string with little to no affect on accuracy?
How does barrel life compare to a standard barrel?

Barrel life will be similar to standard steel barrels. It dissipates heat great but the initial temps of powder ignition are the same and in a hunting gun you're not seeing super high shot strings anyways. Powder selection and how hot your load is is a much more deciding factor.

And absolutely. My barrels will open up from .3ish MOA to .75ish MOA when they get really warm (10+ shots) but they'll hold that .75MOA all day long.

Built a 280Ackley for a guy that ran a 20 shot group one after the other and it went right at 1MOA.... considering he shoots off a sandbag with no rearbag and factoring in shooter consistency that's pretty solid if you ask me.


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  that individual is also a huntwa member. 

Mine is a trued up rem 700 action and it shoots in the .3 and I haven't even really dove into any serious load developement 

What caliber?

  300wsm

[theleo]

Karl just turned me onto this thread 

I've been doing R&D on my carbon barrels with a composites engineer for close to 3 years now.  Whoever said that manufacturing processes of modern carbon barrels have the wrong fiber orientation and too resin rich is DEAD ON!

My barrels have a Rock Creek 5R Cut Rifled liner that doesn't get any thinner than .650 at the muzzle and weight about on par with a #3 sporter contour +/- 4 oz.

As far as the technology goes, I'll refrain from speaking of others and focus on my own barrels.  First up is fiber orientation.  Every layer of composite (notice i didn't say Carbon!) material on my barrel is a continuous piece from tennon to crown.  Each barrel as a single seam running the length of the barrel.  We also do everything we can with our prep work to ensure that the barrel steel doesn't slip or contract/expand at vastly different rates than the composites material.  Next come resin ratios... most carbon barrels have around a 65:35 Resin to Fiber ratio.  Resin is a great insulator and traps heat.  My barrels are in the 25:75 resin/fiber ratio.

We focus on two things with my barrels.  Rigidity (comes from better fiber orientation), and harmonics.  When you think of a graphine/carbon fiber fishing rod, it transfer vibrations incredibly well....  Thats the opposite effect you want with a barrel.  You want harmonic dampening not amplification/transfer.  Thus we don't use 100% carbon fiber.

Our barrels are also cured with no "Induced stress".  A very well known carbon barrel manufacturer at one point in time (I believe they still continue this practice) "caps" their barrel with a stainless barrel cap.  And they do it while inducing tension into the barrel. Engineering principles states that material under tension is more rigid.  But what happens to that tension when barrels heat up and the materials expand at different rates?  It creates an unpredictable reaction.

As far as carbon trapping heat.... that's a myth.  Formula 1 cars use CF brake rotors because it dissipates heat so much better than steel.  It's the resin ratio that is key!  My barrels kick off so much heat you get a mirage after 7-10 shots and that carbon will be hotter to the touch than the stainless barrel tennon around the chamber.  That's the biggest issue for me and using them in matches.  High volume shot strings and mirage is a bad combination.

I quit chasing the weight savings on carbon barrels awhile ago.  I could go thinner on contours without issue, but the fact of the matter is with a 7 lb base rifle weight, I can change my grip pressure and EASILY throw a round 1/2MOA sideways one direction or another.  The rifle itself is extremely accurate, accuracy is not a function of weight....  but light weight rifles are harder to shoot more accurately as a shooter.  If you want to bang animals at 750 and in, you're probably fine with a sub 9 lb well built hunting rifle.  Stretching it further than that and you better be on your A game!  I prefer a 9.5-10.5 lb gun for long range work.  Its worth the extra weight.... you pack 6+ lbs of spotter/tripod up the mountain to up your hunting ability, that extra 1-2 lbs for the added killing ability is well worth it.

Most of my carbon long range rifles end up 7-7.5 lbs base rifle weight with a muzzle brake and 26" barrel.

And building a steel barreled "long range" rifle that weights in at that 7 lb mark sucks!  Who likes to spend $3k+ on a gun that has a barrel that opens up from .5 MOA to 1.5 MOA after 6-7 shots?  If you're shooting long range, you need to be shooting a lot, and waiting 15-20 minutes for a sporter contoured barrel to cool down after a few shots is retarded...  I won't do it lol

Hope this helps some of you! 

Mike

In your research have you played with the orientation of the spine of the wrap at all? I know the question is coming from a different world but I'd imagine if there was any truth about spine indexing arrows to increase accuracy that you might see it come into play here.

[Reidus]

Mine is a trued up rem 700 action and it shoots in the .3 and I haven't even really dove into any serious load developement 

What caliber?

  300wsm

I figured....great round!

[Reidus]

MichaelJ, what you're saying is that you can build a 7lb gun that'll shoot 1/2 moa and do a 7-10 shot string with little to no affect on accuracy?
How does barrel life compare to a standard barrel?

Barrel life will be similar to standard steel barrels. It dissipates heat great but the initial temps of powder ignition are the same and in a hunting gun you're not seeing super high shot strings anyways. Powder selection and how hot your load is is a much more deciding factor.

And absolutely. My barrels will open up from .3ish MOA to .75ish MOA when they get really warm (10+ shots) but they'll hold that .75MOA all day long.

Built a 280Ackley for a guy that ran a 20 shot group one after the other and it went right at 1MOA.... considering he shoots off a sandbag with no rearbag and factoring in shooter consistency that's pretty solid if you ask me.


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That's is awesome! Haven't heard anything like this from the other carbon/composite barrels out there.

[b23]

MichaelJ, I've read that the longer the fiber the better the heat dissipation, how does that relate to wrapping barrels?

Also, do you have the actual equipment to wrap barrels or do you use a service that wraps them for you but to your specs??

[MichaelJ]

MichaelJ, I've read that the longer the fiber the better the heat dissipation, how does that relate to wrapping barrels?

Also, do you have the actual equipment to wrap barrels or do you use a service that wraps them for you but to your specs??

Could be true I couldn't tell you with certainty. Heat dissipation isn't a main focus of these barrels but it is a biproduct of the wrap and our process.

As I said earlier I'm partnered up with a composites engineer that does the wraps and has the application equipment. He wraps the barrels and I build the guns.  Bringing in knowledge from both industries has helped along the way. We work out of different shops as I'm a one man shop who kicks out maybe 50 rifles a year and he does a plethora of other composites work.

Mike


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[MichaelJ]

In your research have you played with the orientation of the spine of the wrap at all? I know the question is coming from a different world but I'd imagine if there was any truth about spine indexing arrows to increase accuracy that you might see it come into play here.

Not so much the spine and the barrel itself isn't the projectile. As long as the barrel is free floated then it doesn't matter. I've played with indexing the curve of the rifle bore and it doesn't affect accuracy at all. I've chambered factory rejects that were as crooked at .060" end to end and they still shot under 1/2MOA. It's more about a good true/square chamber, how the bullet enters the rifling, and no induced stress in the rifle. Understanding possible sources of stress is pretty crucial.



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