Where Should Fish and Wildlife Fine Money Go?

[bigtex]

And it could very well backfire for F&W enforcement with agents spending more time on non-F&W enforcement because they can write more tickets.

Non-F&W offenses are allocated differently then fish & wildlife offenses, that wouldn't even be an issue. Fish & Wildlife fines (of the actual fish and wildlife code) and Discover Pass fines are the only tickets in the state that don't follow the statewide law as to where fines go.

Traffic, boating, etc. all fall under the statewide model where a portion goes to the general fund and a portion goes to the county. Yet fish and wildlife code fines all go the county. And Discover Pass all go to the Discover Pass account.

[JDHasty]

If you can't see revenue generators in LE you have your eyes closed. I don't believe I want to see the equivalent of stop light cameras in F&W.
It might happen in other States, doesn't mean I want it to happen here.
And it could very well backfire for F&W enforcement with agents spending more time on non-F&W enforcement because they can write more tickets.
If the Department received all the fines I can guarantee you there would be pressure to write more tickets.

I didn't think of that and it is 100% true. 

[olyguy79]

Bigtex is correct that a speeding ticket written by WDFW is allocated differently then a fishing ticket. Under this type of proposal only the fish and wildlife offense fines would be shifted. So if this were to happen WDFW would get $ from actual fish and wildlife offenses, not from things like boating, traffic or other tickets written by WDFW.

As we go into the future and WDFW has to rely less on the general fund I think some type of proposal like this will happen. It may be a 100% shift to WDFW or a split with the county.

In terms of revenue generators, cops here it everyday so whatever. The true revenue generating agencies are cities and counties since the $ goes right back into that city/county coffers.


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[boneaddict]

Speeding tickets, written by state or county or city....where do their funds go?

[bigtex]

Speeding tickets, written by state or county or city....where do their funds go?

So funds from ALL other tickets (other then fish and wildlife offenses, Discover Pass, and specialized forest products) written under the RCW/WAC are distributed the following way no matter which agency writes the ticket:

32% State General Fund
68% County Fund

Now where cities and counties can really profit is by enacting their own city and county codes. Some cities/ounties have enacted their own traffic codes by simply saying if you violate a state traffic law your a violating the city/county traffic code, if the officer cites under the city/county code then it's distributed as follows:

32% General Fund
68% City or County Fund depending who wrote the ticket

Traffic tickets cited under the RCW have special fees associated with them. For example $10 goes to the auto theft prevention fund, $5 to EMS fund, etc.

[RB]

So hypothetical situation, four people in a vehicle in the forest during modern firearm. A WDFW officer does a stop three of the four have loaded rifles in the vehicle, an open container of alcohol is with the same three, and one has shot an illegal Buck for the area. How much would the ticket fines be for this? I would imagine there would be quite a hefty fine for this situation.

Reson for the question is this type of situation seems to happen every year and these types of situations make the hunting community as a whole look bad and give antis more fuel. It would be nice to see those that commit the crime pay for enforcement and better habitat. 

[bigtex]

So hypothetical situation, four people in a vehicle in the forest during modern firearm. A WDFW officer does a stop three of the four have loaded rifles in the vehicle, an open container of alcohol is with the same three, and one has shot an illegal Buck for the area. How much would the ticket fines be for this? I would imagine there would be quite a hefty fine for this situation.

Reson for the question is this type of situation seems to happen every year and these types of situations make the hunting community as a whole look bad and give antis more fuel. It would be nice to see those that commit the crime pay for enforcement and better habitat. 

The only "ticket" that would be issued would be for the open container which is a traffic offense and $134 so since it's a traffic violation WDFW wouldn't get the funds since it's not a wildlife offense.

Beginning in 2012 officers could no longer write tickets with fines on them for criminal offenses, only for infractions. All crimes require a court date now.

For the loaded rifles it's a misdemeanor punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail. Prior to 2012 it was a $271 ticket.

The illegal buck (lets say a 2pt in a 3pt minimum area) its a gross misdemeanor punishable by up to a $5,000 criminal fine, 364 days in jail and a mandatory $2,000 civil penalty. Prior to 2012 this was a $2,540 ticket.

In both situations chances of getting anywhere even remotely close to the max criminal fine is extremely doubtful, even with a criminal history.

[Dhoey07]

So hypothetical situation, four people in a vehicle in the forest during modern firearm. A WDFW officer does a stop three of the four have loaded rifles in the vehicle, an open container of alcohol is with the same three, and one has shot an illegal Buck for the area. How much would the ticket fines be for this? I would imagine there would be quite a hefty fine for this situation.

Reson for the question is this type of situation seems to happen every year and these types of situations make the hunting community as a whole look bad and give antis more fuel. It would be nice to see those that commit the crime pay for enforcement and better habitat. 

The only "ticket" that would be issued would be for the open container which is a traffic offense and $134 so since it's a traffic violation WDFW wouldn't get the funds since it's not a wildlife offense.

Beginning in 2012 officers could no longer write tickets with fines on them for criminal offenses, only for infractions. All crimes require a court date now.

For the loaded rifles it's a misdemeanor punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail. Prior to 2012 it was a $271 ticket.

The illegal buck (lets say a 2pt in a 3pt minimum area) its a gross misdemeanor punishable by up to a $5,000 criminal fine, 364 days in jail and a mandatory $2,000 civil penalty. Prior to 2012 this was a $2,540 ticket.

In both situations chances of getting anywhere even remotely close to the max criminal fine is extremely doubtful, even with a criminal history.

So 1 year probation and a 300$ fine for the 2 point and 6 months probation and court fees for the loaded rifles?

[bigtex]

So hypothetical situation, four people in a vehicle in the forest during modern firearm. A WDFW officer does a stop three of the four have loaded rifles in the vehicle, an open container of alcohol is with the same three, and one has shot an illegal Buck for the area. How much would the ticket fines be for this? I would imagine there would be quite a hefty fine for this situation.

Reson for the question is this type of situation seems to happen every year and these types of situations make the hunting community as a whole look bad and give antis more fuel. It would be nice to see those that commit the crime pay for enforcement and better habitat. 

The only "ticket" that would be issued would be for the open container which is a traffic offense and $134 so since it's a traffic violation WDFW wouldn't get the funds since it's not a wildlife offense.

Beginning in 2012 officers could no longer write tickets with fines on them for criminal offenses, only for infractions. All crimes require a court date now.

For the loaded rifles it's a misdemeanor punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail. Prior to 2012 it was a $271 ticket.

The illegal buck (lets say a 2pt in a 3pt minimum area) its a gross misdemeanor punishable by up to a $5,000 criminal fine, 364 days in jail and a mandatory $2,000 civil penalty. Prior to 2012 this was a $2,540 ticket.

In both situations chances of getting anywhere even remotely close to the max criminal fine is extremely doubtful, even with a criminal history.

So 1 year probation and a 300$ fine for the 2 point and 6 months probation and court fees for the loaded rifles?

Each county handles it differently. Your probably looking at a $250 fine and probation in most areas for the loaded gun. For the deer the plea deal is typically the mandatory civil fine, so in this case $2,000, and probation for the criminal aspect of it.

But like I said, each county handles it differently. There's some good counties on the eastside, and some bad ones, same goes for the westside. Typically speaking, the more populated the county is the less severe the penalty will be.

[RB]

So hypothetical situation, four people in a vehicle in the forest during modern firearm. A WDFW officer does a stop three of the four have loaded rifles in the vehicle, an open container of alcohol is with the same three, and one has shot an illegal Buck for the area. How much would the ticket fines be for this? I would imagine there would be quite a hefty fine for this situation.

Reson for the question is this type of situation seems to happen every year and these types of situations make the hunting community as a whole look bad and give antis more fuel. It would be nice to see those that commit the crime pay for enforcement and better habitat. 

The only "ticket" that would be issued would be for the open container which is a traffic offense and $134 so since it's a traffic violation WDFW wouldn't get the funds since it's not a wildlife offense.

Beginning in 2012 officers could no longer write tickets with fines on them for criminal offenses, only for infractions. All crimes require a court date now.

For the loaded rifles it's a misdemeanor punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and 90 days in jail. Prior to 2012 it was a $271 ticket.

The illegal buck (lets say a 2pt in a 3pt minimum area) its a gross misdemeanor punishable by up to a $5,000 criminal fine, 364 days in jail and a mandatory $2,000 civil penalty. Prior to 2012 this was a $2,540 ticket.

In both situations chances of getting anywhere even remotely close to the max criminal fine is extremely doubtful, even with a criminal history.

So 1 year probation and a 300$ fine for the 2 point and 6 months probation and court fees for the loaded rifles?

Each county handles it differently. Your probably looking at a $250 fine and probation in most areas for the loaded gun. For the deer the plea deal is typically the mandatory civil fine, so in this case $2,000, and probation for the criminal aspect of it.

But like I said, each county handles it differently. There's some good counties on the eastside, and some bad ones, same goes for the westside. Typically speaking, the more populated the county is the less severe the penalty will be.

Ok I am starting to see where the money is going (or not going) these are the types of Jacknuts that should be paying the WDFW I believe, but it appears the department does not see a penny. Yes the county should receive some funds for prosecution and the WDFW for enforcement and habitat. 

[DOUBLELUNG]

Having worked for both WA and WY wildlife agencies, I'll weigh in with my opinions.

In WY, 100% of the fish and wildlife violation $ went to the county, and were specifically allocated to the school districts by statute.  It was never any question that citations were NOT motivated by revenue generation.  Like WA (civil fines) in WY (restitution) go to the Department.

From what I've seen the trend in WA is bad and getting worse in terms of pressure on officers to "produce", rather than focus on resource protection.  As a result, you see a lot of meaningless emphasis on general authority enforcement rather than fish and wildlife resource protection - the main exception being parking tickets (excuse me, Discover Pass violations).  Sure, it's productive opening days to check hunters and anglers for licenses, and ticket those without licenses or invalid licenses - license compliance is important because the Department depends on sportsmen buying licenses for funding.  Considering recent disciplinary actions, including termination, for failure to produce (even if available and responding to all calls for service), this pressure is getting worse.

Considering WDFW is all about generating revenue - and hence the emphasis on license violations and parking tickets - let's make the violation system work for resource protection; the focus on revenue to the benefit of WDFW isn't going to change.  I'd rather focus on legislation that induces enforcement to focus on resource protection - the illegal harvest of fish and game.  Right now, they only get the $ from big game and endangered species civil fines.  Let's incentivize WDFW to care about actual poaching, and implement mandatory civil fines from all illegal take: $5/illegal unclassified, $25/shrimp or razor clam, $50/crab, $50/fish (or go nuts and separate a $500 halibut from a $5 punkinseed), $100/small game, $150/forest grouse or upland game bird, $500/furbearer, etc. etc,  The only way we are going to get WDFW enforcement to focus on fish and wildlife resource violations is to make those tickets financially attractive for officers to write, and hence emphasize.  I have no problem with officers writing traffic, drug/alcohol, MIP, etc. INCIDENTALLY, but when the pressure is on to produce, and non-fish and wildlife resources violations are easier to find, I believe I see wildlife officers spending less and less time on resource violations.  The agency loves to make big noise about major fish and wildlife resource violation arrests for PR, but they are the first to take an officer to task for devoting too much time to a major resource crime investigation. 

The best I've known manage to keep a great attitude, write enough BS tickets to keep the bean counters happy with their performance, and focus on resource protection.  The rest say F it, write their parking tickets for the bean counters, and phone it in - and who should blame them?  The only way to get WDFW Police back into "game warden mode" is to make game wardening financially beneficial to WDFW's bottom line.  If, on the other hand, they get a cut from every ticket written, it will only get worse - the pressure will increase to write as many tickets as possible, which equates to even less time on fish and wildlife which require more time per ticket.   

For this reason, I voted All to the County.

[bigtex]

Considering WDFW is all about generating revenue - and hence the emphasis on license violations and parking tickets - let's make the violation system work for resource protection; the focus on revenue to the benefit of WDFW isn't going to change.  I'd rather focus on legislation that induces enforcement to focus on resource protection - the illegal harvest of fish and game.  Right now, they only get the $ from big game and endangered species civil fines.  Let's incentivize WDFW to care about actual poaching, and implement mandatory civil fines from all illegal take: $5/illegal unclassified, $25/shrimp or razor clam, $50/crab, $50/fish (or go nuts and separate a $500 halibut from a $5 punkinseed), $100/small game, $150/forest grouse or upland game bird, $500/furbearer, etc. etc,  The only way we are going to get WDFW enforcement to focus on fish and wildlife resource violations is to make those tickets financially attractive for officers to write, and hence emphasize.  I have no problem with officers writing traffic, drug/alcohol, MIP, etc. INCIDENTALLY, but when the pressure is on to produce, and non-fish and wildlife resources violations are easier to find, I believe I see wildlife officers spending less and less time on resource violations.  The agency loves to make big noise about major fish and wildlife resource violation arrests for PR, but they are the first to take an officer to task for devoting too much time to a major resource crime investigation.

I like it. I know many other states have similar statutes. Many years ago WA kind of had this. It was set up by the courts in the bail schedule where they assessed a fine for each overlimit fish/shellfish (can't remember if they had it for birds). But that was a criminal fine, not a civil one and like I said, that was the Supreme Court putting it in the bail schedule. Now a guy with 10 crabs overlimit in King County may get a $500 fine but a $100 fine in Pierce County even if they have the exact same criminal history. It's left completely up to judges to decide.

[Special T]

Having worked for both WA and WY wildlife agencies, I'll weigh in with my opinions.

In WY, 100% of the fish and wildlife violation $ went to the county, and were specifically allocated to the school districts by statute.  It was never any question that citations were NOT motivated by revenue generation.  Like WA (civil fines) in WY (restitution) go to the Department.

From what I've seen the trend in WA is bad and getting worse in terms of pressure on officers to "produce", rather than focus on resource protection.  As a result, you see a lot of meaningless emphasis on general authority enforcement rather than fish and wildlife resource protection - the main exception being parking tickets (excuse me, Discover Pass violations).  Sure, it's productive opening days to check hunters and anglers for licenses, and ticket those without licenses or invalid licenses - license compliance is important because the Department depends on sportsmen buying licenses for funding.  Considering recent disciplinary actions, including termination, for failure to produce (even if available and responding to all calls for service), this pressure is getting worse.

Considering WDFW is all about generating revenue - and hence the emphasis on license violations and parking tickets - let's make the violation system work for resource protection; the focus on revenue to the benefit of WDFW isn't going to change.  I'd rather focus on legislation that induces enforcement to focus on resource protection - the illegal harvest of fish and game.  Right now, they only get the $ from big game and endangered species civil fines.  Let's incentivize WDFW to care about actual poaching, and implement mandatory civil fines from all illegal take: $5/illegal unclassified, $25/shrimp or razor clam, $50/crab, $50/fish (or go nuts and separate a $500 halibut from a $5 punkinseed), $100/small game, $150/forest grouse or upland game bird, $500/furbearer, etc. etc,  The only way we are going to get WDFW enforcement to focus on fish and wildlife resource violations is to make those tickets financially attractive for officers to write, and hence emphasize.  I have no problem with officers writing traffic, drug/alcohol, MIP, etc. INCIDENTALLY, but when the pressure is on to produce, and non-fish and wildlife resources violations are easier to find, I believe I see wildlife officers spending less and less time on resource violations.  The agency loves to make big noise about major fish and wildlife resource violation arrests for PR, but they are the first to take an officer to task for devoting too much time to a major resource crime investigation. 

The best I've known manage to keep a great attitude, write enough BS tickets to keep the bean counters happy with their performance, and focus on resource protection.  The rest say F it, write their parking tickets for the bean counters, and phone it in - and who should blame them?  The only way to get WDFW Police back into "game warden mode" is to make game wardening financially beneficial to WDFW's bottom line.  If, on the other hand, they get a cut from every ticket written, it will only get worse - the pressure will increase to write as many tickets as possible, which equates to even less time on fish and wildlife which require more time per ticket.   

For this reason, I voted All to the County.

This is such a good insiders perspective. Please share this idea With Kirk Pearson before the opening of the legislative session.

[Ridgeratt]

So hypothetical situation, four people in a vehicle in the forest during modern firearm. A WDFW officer does a stop three of the four have loaded rifles in the vehicle, an open container of alcohol is with the same three, and one has shot an illegal Buck for the area. How much would the ticket fines be for this? I would imagine there would be quite a hefty fine for this situation.

Reson for the question is this type of situation seems to happen every year and these types of situations make the hunting community as a whole look bad and give antis more fuel. It would be nice to see those that commit the crime pay for enforcement and better habitat. 

I believe the part of the equation you forgot to include is they are Either undocumented foreign nationals / or when brought before the magistrate they claim that they don't understand the laws of this country and this is the way we hunted in there native country/

[bigtex]

So hypothetical situation, four people in a vehicle in the forest during modern firearm. A WDFW officer does a stop three of the four have loaded rifles in the vehicle, an open container of alcohol is with the same three, and one has shot an illegal Buck for the area. How much would the ticket fines be for this? I would imagine there would be quite a hefty fine for this situation.

Reson for the question is this type of situation seems to happen every year and these types of situations make the hunting community as a whole look bad and give antis more fuel. It would be nice to see those that commit the crime pay for enforcement and better habitat. 

I believe the part of the equation you forgot to include is they are Either undocumented foreign nationals / or when brought before the magistrate they claim that they don't understand the laws of this country and this is the way we hunted in there native country/

I've stated this a lot of times. I have a higher percentage of unpaid citations/cases from actual Americans than illegal immigrants. I think the reason is because they want that fine paid ASAP so there isn't any "issues"  It's not uncommon for me for an illegal immigrant to pay a fine before the court even processes the ticket.