Idaho unit 26 and 27 advice

[_TONY_]

Hey All-

Needing a little advice from those of you that have hunted unit 26, 27 or both. I have my first child on the way in March and that means that I really have to buckle down and choose only one deer hunt (I know I'm lucky to still have one!) this year. The plan as of right now is to apply for a couple out of state hunts, and use one of these two units as a fall back plan for a November hunt. Can't swing the fly in air charters, so will be going in by foot. My question is, if you had to choose one of these units, which would you choose and why? I'm not looking for anything for the record books, would just be happy with an opportunity at a mature buck. Looking at the stats for each, 26 in less busy than 27 and they both have relatively the same success rates.

Any advise given is greatly appreciated and pm's are welcomed.

Thanks!
Tony

[Pathfinder101]

Tony,
I am looking into Idaho too for next fall.  Wondering why 26/27?  Is this due to the OTC November rut hunt?  I looked at these units too, but while a lot of Idaho has begun to recover from the wolves, it sounds (to me anyway) like those units have not.  Wondering if someone pointed you in that direction, or if you selected those units based on hunt date availability? 

[_TONY_]

Tony,
I am looking into Idaho too for next fall.  Wondering why 26/27?  Is this due to the OTC November rut hunt?  I looked at these units too, but while a lot of Idaho has begun to recover from the wolves, it sounds (to me anyway) like those units have not.  Wondering if someone pointed you in that direction, or if you selected those units based on hunt date availability?

There is a few deciding factors in my narrowing down to these two units. First being time of year (rut) second being remoteness, and third being that the herd is predominantly migratory.

Speaking in terms of only stats, both these units have a higher success and point ratio than others, with a relatively low hunter count. These are stats I like.

I'm still curious to see how the winter kill % shakes out this spring, due to this rough winter. As far as wolf predation, I don't think you would see success percentages like that if the herd was entirely on the ropes.

Tony

[Pathfinder101]

Well, the wolves was actually the reason that I asked you if anyone referred you to the unit.  Years ago (about 2003 I think) I ran into a retire wolf biologist from Alaska.  We got to talking and I asked him what we could expect when the wolves arrive.  To make a long story short, he said they will show up and populate slowly.  Then they will over populate.  Then they will eat everything.  Then the wolf numbers will start to reduce through starvation and wolf-on-wolf violence.  Then he said the deer and elk numbers will begin to recover and there will be stable populations of ungulates and wolves that everyone will learn to live with.  He said from introduction to the beginning of the recovery takes approximately 15 years.  I have noticed Idaho's numbers getting better the last two years and that seems to correlate with what this biologist told me.  I am wondering if 26 and 27 are starting their "recovery".  The thing is that usually, reliable stats are at least a year behind, so I was wondering if you had heard something.

He also said that bad winters are the monkey-wrench in a recovery.  Obviously, hard winters are bad for deer/elk and good for predators... meaning that more pups will be born in the spring, they will grow up and need to eat next year..etc...

[go4steelhd]

This will be my third major winter die off while hunting Idaho. In 1992 I seen 21 bucks opening morning. Then the winter kill. In 93 I seen 3 bucks the whole next season in the same area. In 2004 I was seeing 20 or 30 deer a walk. In 2005 I seen 3 bucks and a doe opening afternoon. The next deer I seen was on day 8. I will be hunting deer this fall regardless; but if I was only doing one hunt. It would not be for deer this year

[Pathfinder101]

Well, it was down for a few days, but the IDFG Map Center/Hunt Planner's fire maps are working again.  I looked at 26 and 27 and I see that there was a good burn in 27 a few years ago that should be prime habitat (the southern end).  I think I would be looking there.  Actually, I was looking at Unit 36 (the north end) that looks like it is part of the same burn. 
I fear that go4steelhead is right though.  If the winter continues the way it has, this may be a better year to concentrate on elk...

[huntnnw]

it was about 3 winters ago they paid a trapper in the Church to kill a whole pack.. he killed everyone of them.

[Pathfinder101]

it was about 3 winters ago they paid a trapper in the Church to kill a whole pack.. he killed everyone of them.

Yeah, found this story.  Looks like it was 2 packs (9 wolves total).

http://missoulian.com/news/local/professional-hunter-eliminated-wolf-packs-in-frank-church-wilderness/article_579c30a8-8901-11e3-9949-0019bb2963f4.html

[Mr Mykiss]

With the effort that you'd be putting in packing into the church you could escape people in every other unit in Idaho...with less effort

[_TONY_]

Well, it was down for a few days, but the IDFG Map Center/Hunt Planner's fire maps are working again.  I looked at 26 and 27 and I see that there was a good burn in 27 a few years ago that should be prime habitat (the southern end).  I think I would be looking there.  Actually, I was looking at Unit 36 (the north end) that looks like it is part of the same burn. 
I fear that go4steelhead is right though.  If the winter continues the way it has, this may be a better year to concentrate on elk...

I had a pretty hard look at 36 as well, and still inst entirely out of the cards.

I've been talking with a few guys that guided the Frank and going into 26 from the Middle Fork side may have been a little too ambitious of me. If not drawn in other states, I may focus my efforts into 20A, and hunt the lower breaks. 

In regards to the winter kill, the jury is still out for me.I really want to talk to the Bio this spring and see what their findings are.

[_TONY_]

With the effort that you'd be putting in packing into the church you could escape people in every other unit in Idaho...with less effort

Man, I wish this were true

[Pathfinder101]

With the effort that you'd be putting in packing into the church you could escape people in every other unit in Idaho...with less effort

Where would you concentrate your research?  (That's my polite, serious yet thoughtful look on my face way of asking "Don't want to ask for any honey-holes, but....)

 

[Mr Mykiss]

I'm just saying that going 5 or 6 miles into the frank is the equivalent of going 10 into almost any other unit in da ho.
I'd concemtrate on anywhere there aren't roads and ATV networks... it's true, you get away from roads, you'll get away from people.
19, 19A, 20, 20A, 21, 28, 30 in that area will all be in the same ballpark as those wilderness units. A few.of those even fit the bull for the Nov hunt.

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

I'm just saying that going 5 or 6 miles into the frank is the equivalent of going 10 into almost any other unit in da ho.
I'd concemtrate on anywhere there aren't roads and ATV networks... it's true, you get away from roads, you'll get away from people.
19, 19A, 20, 20A, 21, 28, 30 in that area will all be in the same ballpark as those wilderness units. A few.of those even fit the bull for the Nov hunt.

That is a true statement.  There is a certain aura around the Church that since it is so remote, that automatically increases the population of animals.  I do not believe that is the case.  You will have a very similar chance of being successful in any of the above mentioned units and you can get away from people as well.  That being said, it is hard to resist the urge to go into the Church.  There is something mythical about that country.  Go hunt where you want to and have fun! 

[BeerBugler]

If your dead set on hunting the church...fly in. It's the only way to get the whole experience. Not saying you'll shoot a big buck/bull but, you will have an experience. There's a lot better places to hunt but you'd be hard pressed to find a better place to spend a week or two. The cost of the air charter ($350) is not much compared to thee other expenses involved in an out of state hunt.

[Mr Mykiss]

I second that. Really that's dirt cheap to fly in, I'm sure there's a few that can help you on that as well if you're serious. Don't worry you can still put on plenty of boot miles once you're in there!!

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

If your dead set on hunting the church...fly in. It's the only way to get the whole experience. Not saying you'll shoot a big buck/bull but, you will have an experience. There's a lot better places to hunt but you'd be hard pressed to find a better place to spend a week or two. The cost of the air charter ($350) is not much compared to thee other expenses involved in an out of state hunt.

Could you provide the contact info for the air service?  That is really not much.

Thanks

[2MANY]

If you fly in, hike 7 miles from the airstrip to camp, and don't kill a nice buck/bull then perhaps you should head to the eye doctor once you get out.

[fishngamereaper]

I've flown with McCall air before. But be prepared to not have a schedule. It took two days for them to get us out one year.  There are a lot of factors with back country drops. But they are fun.

[BeerBugler]

Depends on where you live, which will determine where you are flying out of. Cascade, Salmon, Challis, and a few other places. Salmon Air, Sawtooth, Arnold, and G&S are a few to get you started. I suppose "nice" is a relative term.

[2MANY]

Also flying out of Hamilton MT

[BeerBugler]

Some air charters will be solely responsible for you and others will "share" you. No big deal but it's good to know before hand. No matter what happens, dress warm anytime you fly and make sure your sleeping bag and your rifle is in the plane your in. Plans can change real quick on this "hunt". If you need to be back to work on Monday, try and be done hunting by Friday.

[Pathfinder101]

I'm just saying that going 5 or 6 miles into the frank is the equivalent of going 10 into almost any other unit in da ho.
I'd concemtrate on anywhere there aren't roads and ATV networks... it's true, you get away from roads, you'll get away from people.
19, 19A, 20, 20A, 21, 28, 30 in that area will all be in the same ballpark as those wilderness units. A few.of those even fit the bull for the Nov hunt.

Thanks, that helps narrow things down (for me anyway).  Fly-in won't be an option for me since I am a school teacher and I only can arrange so much time off in the fall.  Stuck for a couple of days on an airstrip and I would be in trouble at work.
Since I have never hunted Idaho before, I am just going off hearsay, but I have heard that motorcycles are a problem anywhere there are trails. You mentioned "staying away from the ATV trails", and I know that some units are designated for "non-motorized travel".  What is your experience with people actually following those rules?  Word on the street is that Idaho has trouble enforcing that rule...
 

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

I'm just saying that going 5 or 6 miles into the frank is the equivalent of going 10 into almost any other unit in da ho.
I'd concemtrate on anywhere there aren't roads and ATV networks... it's true, you get away from roads, you'll get away from people.
19, 19A, 20, 20A, 21, 28, 30 in that area will all be in the same ballpark as those wilderness units. A few.of those even fit the bull for the Nov hunt.

Thanks, that helps narrow things down (for me anyway).  Fly-in won't be an option for me since I am a school teacher and I only can arrange so much time off in the fall.  Stuck for a couple of days on an airstrip and I would be in trouble at work.
Since I have never hunted Idaho before, I am just going off hearsay, but I have heard that motorcycles are a problem anywhere there are trails. You mentioned "staying away from the ATV trails", and I know that some units are designated for "non-motorized travel".  What is your experience with people actually following those rules?  Word on the street is that Idaho has trouble enforcing that rule...

There are a good amount of motorcycle trails here in Idaho.  Some are open year round and hunters will use them to access areas easier.  Just look at the NFS maps, they will list the trails in the area and what is or is not allowed on them.  I haven't had an issue in areas that are closed to motorized vehicles where i hunt, but I am sure it can happen.

[Pathfinder101]

I'm just saying that going 5 or 6 miles into the frank is the equivalent of going 10 into almost any other unit in da ho.
I'd concemtrate on anywhere there aren't roads and ATV networks... it's true, you get away from roads, you'll get away from people.
19, 19A, 20, 20A, 21, 28, 30 in that area will all be in the same ballpark as those wilderness units. A few.of those even fit the bull for the Nov hunt.

Thanks, that helps narrow things down (for me anyway).  Fly-in won't be an option for me since I am a school teacher and I only can arrange so much time off in the fall.  Stuck for a couple of days on an airstrip and I would be in trouble at work.
Since I have never hunted Idaho before, I am just going off hearsay, but I have heard that motorcycles are a problem anywhere there are trails. You mentioned "staying away from the ATV trails", and I know that some units are designated for "non-motorized travel".  What is your experience with people actually following those rules?  Word on the street is that Idaho has trouble enforcing that rule...

There are a good amount of motorcycle trails here in Idaho.  Some are open year round and hunters will use them to access areas easier.  Just look at the NFS maps, they will list the trails in the area and what is or is not allowed on them.

I noticed that in the hunting regs.  Some units are designated "non-motorized traffic only".  I keep hearing about people hiking up trail in a non-motorized area and 3 guys on bikes with rifles blowing past them.  Just wondering if some units are "worse than others" for this kind of thing.  Is Idaho able to enforce this law?

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

I'm just saying that going 5 or 6 miles into the frank is the equivalent of going 10 into almost any other unit in da ho.
I'd concemtrate on anywhere there aren't roads and ATV networks... it's true, you get away from roads, you'll get away from people.
19, 19A, 20, 20A, 21, 28, 30 in that area will all be in the same ballpark as those wilderness units. A few.of those even fit the bull for the Nov hunt.

Thanks, that helps narrow things down (for me anyway).  Fly-in won't be an option for me since I am a school teacher and I only can arrange so much time off in the fall.  Stuck for a couple of days on an airstrip and I would be in trouble at work.
Since I have never hunted Idaho before, I am just going off hearsay, but I have heard that motorcycles are a problem anywhere there are trails. You mentioned "staying away from the ATV trails", and I know that some units are designated for "non-motorized travel".  What is your experience with people actually following those rules?  Word on the street is that Idaho has trouble enforcing that rule...

There are a good amount of motorcycle trails here in Idaho.  Some are open year round and hunters will use them to access areas easier.  Just look at the NFS maps, they will list the trails in the area and what is or is not allowed on them.

I noticed that in the hunting regs.  Some units are designated "non-motorized traffic only".  I keep hearing about people hiking up trail in a non-motorized area and 3 guys on bikes with rifles blowing past them.  Just wondering if some units are "worse than others" for this kind of thing.  Is Idaho able to enforce this law?

Here is a good source of info with trail information.  It could happen, but they are not enforcing it very well, to much land and not enough man power.  I wouldst let it concern you though, especially in wilderness areas.  If there are outfitters out there with horses, they will take care of any idiot who rode a bike in!

https://idaho.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=2252207eb95b49f99b2c05228831dfbb

[2MANY]

If there is a two track from the turn of the century the interbred locals will run their quads on them legal or not.
Enforcement doesn't happen.
Both parties are lazy.

Getting away from trails/roads is stellar advice.

[Mr Mykiss]

Fly-in won't be an option for me since I am a school teacher and I only can arrange so much time off in the fall.

Thank you for your service to the world.

[2MANY]

Fly-in won't be an option for me since I am a school teacher and I only can arrange so much time off in the fall.

Thank you for your service to the world.

Please go in and kick the counselor.

[Mr Mykiss]

1. I'm scared to talk deer in Idaho right now...obviously (see winterkill thread)
2. I can't speak for all units but I've heard that ATVs are really a problem in 43. I've been in 49 during archery elk season and seldom saw a soul over 5 days. I do know that many of the units surrounding Boise, Challis and Salmon will have plenty of people and ATVs...of course...the further away you get from the city the fewer people/ATVs. You can really tell from google earth the places that have trail networks and also I use trails.idaho.gov quite a bit for scoutin

PS: It's an unwritten rule that you can't hunt in Idaho without an ATV

[Pathfinder101]

Fly-in won't be an option for me since I am a school teacher and I only can arrange so much time off in the fall.

Thank you for your service to the world.

Please go in and kick the counselor.

Yeah, I saw the thread about that...

For what it's worth, I teach ROTC.  We don't have much better luck with them than you do...

[Pathfinder101]

1. I'm scared to talk deer in Idaho right now...obviously (see winterkill thread)
2. I can't speak for all units but I've heard that ATVs are really a problem in 43. I've been in 49 during archery elk season and seldom saw a soul over 5 days. I do know that many of the units surrounding Boise, Challis and Salmon will have plenty of people and ATVs...of course...the further away you get from the city the fewer people/ATVs. You can really tell from google earth the places that have trail networks and also I use trails.idaho.gov quite a bit for scoutin

PS: It's an unwritten rule that you can't hunt in Idaho without an ATV

I have heard that.  I guess I'm screwed...

[Mr Mykiss]

1. I'm scared to talk deer in Idaho right now...obviously (see winterkill thread)
2. I can't speak for all units but I've heard that ATVs are really a problem in 43. I've been in 49 during archery elk season and seldom saw a soul over 5 days. I do know that many of the units surrounding Boise, Challis and Salmon will have plenty of people and ATVs...of course...the further away you get from the city the fewer people/ATVs. You can really tell from google earth the places that have trail networks and also I use trails.idaho.gov quite a bit for scoutin

PS: It's an unwritten rule that you can't hunt in Idaho without an ATV

I have heard that.  I guess I'm screwed...

An easy workaround is to bring one and keep it parked it at camp

[Pathfinder101]

1. I'm scared to talk deer in Idaho right now...obviously (see winterkill thread)
2. I can't speak for all units but I've heard that ATVs are really a problem in 43. I've been in 49 during archery elk season and seldom saw a soul over 5 days. I do know that many of the units surrounding Boise, Challis and Salmon will have plenty of people and ATVs...of course...the further away you get from the city the fewer people/ATVs. You can really tell from google earth the places that have trail networks and also I use trails.idaho.gov quite a bit for scoutin

PS: It's an unwritten rule that you can't hunt in Idaho without an ATV

I have heard that.  I guess I'm screwed...

An easy workaround is to bring one and keep it parked it at camp

How about a cardboard cutout of one?  How close do they look?

[Cougeyes]

Keep in mind that unit 27 is now first choice draw only.  So you wont be able to put in for a better unit and use 27 as your fall back.  26 could be a fall back but not 27 now, or at least that's how it was last year.  Those two units are challenging during the November hunt due to the potential to get dumped on with snow, but can make for some good hunting.  Also depends on if you're driving in somewhere up a mountain road vs. hiking in from lower elevation.  It can be sketchy if you drive in anywhere in November.  Pay attention to the forecast.

[j_wellock]

Question... how are these unitstill earlier in the season with the general tag is it littered with people? The deer still really high and hard to get to? Alot that I'm seeing is everyone hunts this in November and that sounds like when the majority hunt this

[Beargravy]

No, it wont be littered with people during general season,you probably wont see anybody if goin in on foot, and yes the deer are high and hard to get to.Most people fly in to the landingstrips in November and hunt the rut ,if you get away from the strips a few miles you wont see many people.

[Mr Mykiss]

A tip to beat "the crowds" hike in on the trail 1.5 miles, turn left/right, hike 5000' up towards the top. Crowd free!!

[j_wellock]

Was thinking about possibly flying in during the general season and getting in a few miles away from the landing strip

[Mr Mykiss]

Now we're talkin...but you'll be flying into the crowd, not away from em.
Still the terms "crowd" and "central idaho" don't go together all that well

[DIYARCHERYJUNKIE]

Idaho has a non motorized hunting rule. You can use a lot of trails for travel to and from camp for the pack in and out but can only hunt from camp on foot and can't use your rig until you leave. Like mentioned this rule is hard to enforce.

[andrew_in_idaho]

Idaho has a non motorized hunting rule. You can use a lot of trails for travel to and from camp for the pack in and out but can only hunt from camp on foot and can't use your rig until you leave. Like mentioned this rule is hard to enforce.

Herein lies the problem, lots of guys in areas with the nonmotorized hunting rule just strap a tent and sleeping bag to the rack of their bikes/atvs, if by some slim chance a game warden happens to stop them they are simply headed to their campsite and not hunting.


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