Demise of the Willapa

[Mtnwalker]

All you Willapa fisherman should give this a listen, not sure how many guys are aware of this

https://untamedradio.podbean.com/e/the-demise-of-the-willapa

[WSU]

Pretty widely known. Forks creek has a huge straying problem. Wdfw mismanaged that bay for the benefit of the gill nets for so long that drastic changes are really the only way to comply with the requirements for hatchery reform.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Pretty widely known. Forks creek has a huge straying problem. Wdfw mismanaged that bay for the benefit of the gill nets for so long that drastic changes are really the only way to comply with the requirements for hatchery reform.

Oh do tell. Please expound on this mismanagement and how it was for the benefit of the gill nets. I can't wait to hear all of your expertise.

[WSU]

Forks creek has no real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. Wdfw released millions of fish specifically to gillnet the bay damn near constantly from August to December.  All done knowing they netted the crap out of any wild fish and knowing they couldn't remove the hatchery fish that escaped the gill nets.

Mismanagement is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. If you want lots of hatchery fish to net then wdfw did well. If you want wild fish and compliance with state law wdfw did poorly.

What's your expert opinion?

[Mtnwalker]

I don't pay as much attention to the politics of WDFW as I probably should but my whole family is from Grays Harbor, we fish the Willapa pretty often and this was the first we had heard of this. I was surprised to hear that it's been in the works since 2015, I'm guessing they're trying to keep it fairly hush hush. It's a bummer for me to hear, this fishery is the only reason I still drop the almost hundred bucks on a license every year.

[WSU]

Some plants are diverted elsewhere. And the bay fishery is better early because the nets go in later. Just depends on where and when you fish.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Forks creek has no real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. Wdfw released millions of fish specifically to gillnet the bay damn near constantly from August to December.  All done knowing they netted the crap out of any wild fish and knowing they couldn't remove the hatchery fish that escaped the gill nets.

Mismanagement is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. If you want lots of hatchery fish to net then wdfw did well. If you want wild fish and compliance with state law wdfw did poorly.

What's your expert opinion?

So let me get this straight. First you are complaining that they produced a lot of fish for commercials to net. (and also for sporties to catch.  And now you are complaining because they aren't producing those same fish?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

By the way, I've known about this plan for two years. Commercial fishermen have been against this reduction.

[WSU]

  I don't really fish there and am not complaining either way, really.

My point was that the reduction is required due to how wdfw managed the hatchery program and commercial seasons.  They had to be sued to correct what they were doing. Make no mistake, wdfw knew what it was doing and did it to provide the commercials with fish to net.  Wdfw's own study told them a 'selective' hill net fishery didn't work because none of the fish released survived. Wdfw's solution was to ignore the problem and lie to the public in order to allow netting. This reduction is a result of that past management.

[WSU]

Here is the study if you are interested:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/mb/sk/pdf/Report_8.pdf

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Pretty widely known. Forks creek has a huge straying problem. Wdfw mismanaged that bay for the benefit of the gill nets for so long that drastic changes are really the only way to comply with the requirements for hatchery reform.

All hatcheries have a straying problem. So moving the production to another hatchery does nothing to address that problem. Now if you want to get rid of hatcheries and get serious about the real problems facing wild salmon such as logging and farming and pesticides and herbicides and dams, then we might have something to agree upon.

[WSU]

Not all as bad as Forks Creek or even close.  And I am definitely not anti-hatchery.  Do you know why production was moved? Do you know why releases were reduced in the willipa specifically?

And nice dodge by the way. Don't like the facts? Just point the finger at a different group and act like your own actions aren't the problem. One of the very real problems facing salmon is that we commercially harvest damn near all of them before they can spawn.

[Harbor_hunter]

Fishing wasnt great in the bay last summer, looks like it wont be improving any time soon....Not to change the subject, but they also mentioned in the podcast that Hancock was going to start charging access fees for their land down here, but it would still be walk in.  Anyone have any ideas on how much that might be?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Not all as bad as Forks Creek or even close.  And I am definitely not anti-hatchery.  Do you know why production was moved? Do you know why releases were reduced in the willipa specifically?

And nice dodge by the way. Don't like the facts? Just point the finger at a different group and act like your own actions aren't the problem. One of the very real problems facing salmon is that we commercially harvest damn near all of them before they can spawn.

No dodge. Pointing out serious problems for wild stocks. Hatcheries are near the top. Well managed wild stocks can be exploited. Washington's are not well managed. It doesn't have anything to do with harvest. It has to do with production and hatcheries have hidden the fact that once world class rivers don't have near the production that they should. Even systems that have no commercial effort have suffered. As long as hatcheries are leaned on, it will never change. Hatcheries should only be used sparingly to enhance wild runs. They should never be used as the end all.

[grundy53]

Forks creek has no real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. Wdfw released millions of fish specifically to gillnet the bay damn near constantly from August to December.  All done knowing they netted the crap out of any wild fish and knowing they couldn't remove the hatchery fish that escaped the gill nets.

Mismanagement is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. If you want lots of hatchery fish to net then wdfw did well. If you want wild fish and compliance with state law wdfw did poorly.

What's your expert opinion?

Have you ever been to the forks creek hatchery? It's absurd to say they don't have any real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. They definitely do.

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