Poll- non magnifying scopes on muzzle loaders?

[jstone]

  Well said

[jackelope]

If you need glass to get a better shot then get closer? How is that an argument? Don't take the long shot..

This.
Maybe instead of putting glass on muzzleloaders, we should have a max range of 100 yards.

[Oh Mah]

I was going to say before  but come on now how long a shot would a clean shot be with a muzzy?200 yards now.will glass make a difference other than a clean shot?would a hunter take that shot anyway with or without glass? I say NO   Then  YES

[BULLBLASTER]

If you need glass to get a better shot then get closer? How is that an argument? Don't take the long shot..

This.
Maybe instead of putting glass on muzzleloaders, we should have a max range of 100 yards.

im not so sure that'll help me.  I struggle real bad with muzzys.
Hopefully I can break that hex with my muzzy this fall as I'm going all in with a WA muzzy deer tag. That dang thing has been racking up the missed shots for me the last few years.
I still say keep the glass off!

[Jonathan_S]

For his entire existence, man has used the most advanced means possible to kill his quarry. The idea of limiting one's ability in the hunt is such a new and bizarre experience (relatively speaking).

I believe it's inherently impossible to get agreement amongst short range weapon hunters because of the variety of mindsets therein. Personally, I hunt archery for the season dates so my point of view is based on what may or may not threaten season dates. Others do it for the enjoyment of using stick and string.

[jackelope]

If you need glass to get a better shot then get closer? How is that an argument? Don't take the long shot..

This.
Maybe instead of putting glass on muzzleloaders, we should have a max range of 100 yards.

im not so sure that'll help me.  I struggle real bad with muzzys.
Hopefully I can break that hex with my muzzy this fall as I'm going all in with a WA muzzy deer tag. That dang thing has been racking up the missed shots for me the last few years.
I still say keep the glass off!

Hey.....maybe some folks just aren't cut out for the short range work. Maybe you should just stick to long range work with all the other cool kids.
 

[Bob33]

For his entire existence, man has used the most advanced means possible to kill his quarry. The idea of limiting one's ability in the hunt is such a new and bizarre experience (relatively speaking).

The concept of "fair chase" has been around for a while, which voluntarily restricts the means of killing for ethical considerations. I don't believe that is the primary consideration in this discussion, however.

(From Wikipedia):
The earliest recorded North American usage of the term "fair chase" is in the fifth article of the Boone and Crockett Club constitution, adopted in February 1888. At this time in American history there were no laws governing the talking of game for food or for sport. Water-killing deer (driving deer with hounds or pushers into lakes where hunters waited in boats to either shoot, club, or cut the throats of deer) was also a widespread practice, especially in the Adirondack Mountains.

Article X of the club’s constitution declared that the killing of game while swimming was an "offense" for which a member may be suspended or expelled from the club.[5] Later writings by club members Roosevelt, George Bird Grinnell, and Aldo Leopold articulated the term "fair chase" to the public through books and magazine articles. Most notable of these where the club’s Acorn book series on hunting (1893 – 1933), Leopold's Sand County Almanac,[6] and Grinnell’s Forest and Stream magazine (now Field & Stream).

In 1893, Roosevelt wrote about hunting and fair chase in his book titled The Wilderness Hunter.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_chase

[JimmyHoffa]

For his entire existence, man has used the most advanced means possible to kill his quarry. The idea of limiting one's ability in the hunt is such a new and bizarre experience (relatively speaking).

I believe it's inherently impossible to get agreement amongst short range weapon hunters because of the variety of mindsets therein. Personally, I hunt archery for the season dates so my point of view is based on what may or may not threaten season dates. Others do it for the enjoyment of using stick and string.

I think the best way to have unlimited tech is to go special permit.  Then success rates, seasons and animal opportunity distribution would be more similar to the different groups.

[BULLBLASTER]

If you need glass to get a better shot then get closer? How is that an argument? Don't take the long shot..

This.
Maybe instead of putting glass on muzzleloaders, we should have a max range of 100 yards.

im not so sure that'll help me.  I struggle real bad with muzzys.
Hopefully I can break that hex with my muzzy this fall as I'm going all in with a WA muzzy deer tag. That dang thing has been racking up the missed shots for me the last few years.
I still say keep the glass off!

Hey.....maybe some folks just aren't cut out for the short range work. Maybe you should just stick to long range work with all the other cool kids.
 

I could do that. But now it's a thing I have to prove to myself... and my buddy's too. The crap I catch from them is unrelenting.   

[jackmaster]

Ya got that right RASBO !!!

[Soady]

As another stated opening the door to a scoped muzzleloader creep would open the door to the 209 primer, along with creep leading to the famed orange vest. My eyes are weak but I practice hard and have made adjustments to compensate for that by simply getting closer. Muzzleloader hunting is about the dedication needed in order be successful by knowing your quarry, knowing your skill level, and knowing your limits. The woods are full of modern scoped rifles being carried by unsuccessful hunters, why would a scoped muzzleloader make those hunters anymore successful if they switched to a scoped muzzleloader season?

[Oh Mah]

Exactly what the pros are saying in this thread,What diff. would it make?None except maybe better shot placement,ID of quarry.You can say get closer fine,you can say get better fine you can say all kinds of stuff that doesn't matter.the fact is for some it doesn't matter.There are hunters that will take the shot with or without the scope.whether they are sure its a 3 point or not.next you will be advocating for no binos. on muzzy hunts too.if you want to prove your skill by that kind of measure then go buy a Rambo knife hide in tree when quarry comes your way have at it,tell us all about how grand it is.pics or it never happened though.We wear orange for safety and safety only with modern because of numbers and distance.wearing orange makes no diff hunting deer or elk.

[Hart]

I enjoy the equipment restrictions of our muzzleloader season.The last thing I want is any creep towards what east coast muzzleloader seasons have become. Even non-magnified I can see fancy optics improving people's effective range, especially in dealing with black powder bullet drop.

I voted no

[elkboy]

It takes work to become proficient with open sights.  I have had plenty of opportunities at animals that could easily have been taken with even 1x glass due to the greater precision of the reticle vs. a front fiber optic.  I do believe that having the 1x glass would have allowed me to tag out sooner a good number of times.  Maybe I can get Sabotloader to do an experiment comparing deer vital zone limiting ranges with a peep sight vs. a 1x glass... 

At the end of the day, though, know your effective ranges from each field position, stick to those ranges, and take good broadside or quartering away shots on stationary animals. That is the best way to minimize wounding loss.  I don't think we ought to relax restrictions that make muzzy season what it is to accommodate those who don't care to practice, stalk closer, etc.  If the animal is beyond your effective range, get closer.  If you can't get closer, then the animal has won this round.  And that is the kind of outcome that makes this hunting. 

[Dan-o]

I've hunted muzzleloader (open sights only) for 40 years.

It's not just a matter of practice.

When I was younger I had standard visual acuity and could easily make 125 yard clean kills.

It's only the last 5 years or so that my eyes have gotten less able to focus near and far (as required for open sights).

Now I can't focus sights on a target beyond about 30 yards.......

A non magnifying sight would let some of us older folk hunt muzzleloader longer.

I hate to transition back to modern, but I might have to.   Most of my all time favorite hunts have been chasing elk with muzzy in hand.