Setup, Timing, and Execution of the Nervous/Popping Grunt!

[WapitiTalk1]

Elk don’t always come in to calling in the classic upwind fashion (nose to the wind) but most oftentimes they do (they rely on their snouts as much as their eyesight to figure out what’s making that challenging or seductive sound in their neighborhood).  They also don’t always come in screaming their heads off, in fact, a good portion of the time depending on many factors (including the stage of the rut, hunting pressure, predator pressure, etc.), they ninja in and are on top of you before you get a chance to react accordingly (caller or shooter), particularly, when you drop your guard. Let’s talk about setups and timing of the nervous/popping grunt to maximize your shot opportunities.  Let’s say the caller, is set up around 40 yards from where the elk stands now and the shooter, is right at 25 yards from where the bull stands (both caller/shooter sitting in the direction of their arrows).  This bull was silent coming in but the caller was on his game (using both his ears and eyes) and ID’ed Bullwinkle as he ninjaed in.  The caller also gave his shooter a hand signal that the bull was coming in a few seconds before he threw out a popping grunt (the shooter could not see the approach route of the bull from his position). NOW, at this point in time…. The bull stops in his tracks from the grunt and the shooter draws and……………………….
OK, let’s discuss this..
1.  Was the setup staged correctly considering the wind direction and strategic positioning of the caller/shooter? 
2.  Was the nervous/popping grunt (used to stop an elk his tracks/demands a positive ID), used at the appropriate time to stop the bull?   
3.  Lastly of course, as the shooter, are you shooting? 


If you're shooting, save the picture to your desktop and open in MS Paint, then place a spot, X, or whatever on the critter before you save it back to a jpg or png and add the marked up pic with your post.

[Mfowl]

I feel like that bull is gonna blow out of there any second given the wind. Caller and shooter would appear to be set up properly but I think the caller stopped the bull a second too soon. If that bull's left leg steps forward before he busts out of there I'm slipping an arrow in the boiler room.

[Johnb317]

  but you can double lung him now if you're dialed in
Using a pad so can someone mark the spot?

[Todd_ID]

Are you setup right for wind? No, but you never know the perfect answer or place until it's too late.

Caller in the right spot? No they're only 17-ish yards from the shooter. That picture is open enough that the caller should be at least 40 yards from the shooter. My rule of thumb is that the caller should never see the shot: meaning the elk is searching for the caller when the shooter stops him and shoots.

Correct call to stop the bull? Yes, but shooter should be doing it. A cow call may lead to several yards of continued walking but the grunt stops them almost in their tracks.

Shoot now? Yes, my arrow is a split second from release. The right front leg is straight indicating it's pulling back. The left front is bent in the normal forward walk. This elk in the picture is in motion. Even if he froze instantly at the exact picture frame, he'll set that left front leg down straight giving a great shot.

Hit him just above the end of the blue arrow about a third up the body once he sets that leg down, and you'll watch a trophy bull go down in sight.

[lamrith]

Ahh the challenge of stopping a bull for your shooter.  not knowing the exact perspective and shot lane on the fly is tough and something I worry about as a caller.  As mentioned the caller locked this bull a second to soon.  That leg being back really limits access to the back lung, and zero shot at the heart.  Looking at a one lung shot.

I think I am going to hold and see how he places that near leg down in hopes of better shot.

[buglebrush]

I am shooting all day at that one.   Just slip it behind the leg.  An elks lungs are huge.  Double long shot for sure.

[Mfowl]

I don't like that scrub pine crowding the shooting lane. Thats why I am holding the shot for that leg to come forward. Too much opportunity for deflection at this point.

[buglebrush]

That's a reasonable concern, but since the distance is 25 yards I'm feeling good about my shot. 

[BDildine]

are we talking a slight breeze, or pretty good wind? that would probably weigh heavily on my decision

[Seahawk12]

So the elk is moving between the caller and shooter? If so i am not taking the shot. Anything can happen to alter a shot, from a twig to a perfectly timed bird flying across the arrow flight path. I'd wait and pray that he moves to a spot the gives me an opportunity.

[WapitiTalk1]

Allrighty, let's take this a step further.  When you set up for a cold calling, advertising, or breeding sequence setup.... how do you set up considering the prevailing wind?  Unless you're close to known herd bull with cows, aren't you gonna set up so anything coming into your calls will be circling to get your wind?  Now if you've moved in on a herd bull with cows, knowing that eyes and noses are already on full alert to danger from predators (including stinky hunters) are you gonna set up the same as you would as mentioned above?  Keep it going folks, this topic is worthy of further discussion!   

[WapitiTalk1]

Ya, I know I don't always offer/explain these scenarios crystal clear, and, oftentimes throw in some info that may or may not ring true in an effort to spark some elky discussion. In a true cold calling setup (trolling for unknown elk so to speak, in an area that we honestly don't if there are elk within earshot), a setup as shown in the picture isn't a bad course of action. I've found that elk will oftentimes come in as shown in the image, particularly in the early part of the rut during herding up activity when there isn't a lot of vocalization going on, and, they oftentimes come in quiet as a mouse with their snouts leading the way. For the majority of setups though, hunters "should" set up with the wind in their favor. The caller/hunter setup in the image, considering the prevailing wind, is certainly not the best . That said, I offer the following considering the initial post questions:

1. Was the setup staged correctly considering the wind direction and strategic positioning of the caller/shooter? Not really in the classic sense although this type of directional setup may be used in a true cold calling setup with success.
2. Was the nervous/popping grunt (used to stop an elk his tracks/demands a positive ID), used at the appropriate time to stop the bull? Ya, pretty much but the nervous grunt/bark was given perhaps a mili-second too early (by whoever, caller or shooter, saw the elk come into the shooting lane).
3. Lastly of course, as the shooter, are you shooting? Yep, how does this spot look to you folks?

[Mfowl]

Don't you run the risk of a direct bone hit on that shot placement? I get some bows and archers are capable of blowing right through that leg but I feel like there is too much that could go wrong in that shot placement. Especially when you factor things like nerves and wind drift in to the equation. I would err on the side of caution and wait for those vitals to be more exposed.

[lamrith]

That shot placement is good RJ.  I just know with being new and likely shaking like a leaf in the wind I would choose an aim point farther back which makes me concerned about missing the far lung.  I would probably have my aim point on the right point of your + or maybe an inch back, just for added buffer incase I pull the shot left, I have some margin or error to not hit bone.

Call setup overall does not seem bad.  shooter is 20yrds ish downwind of the caller.  Though the shooter should have been in FRONT of that shrubbery.  Hard habit to break though for sure.

[msg]

I have rifle killed a raghorn bull that had been t-boned in that spot. Arrow in a couple of inches in and broke off. Broadhead was encapsulated in gristle and puss. Have no idea how far the shot was or what pull weight the bow was.But definitely not enough horsepower.