Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras

[Odell]

Stein for President

[NW SURVEYOR]

BugleBrush,
Seeing how the camera's have never helped you kill animals, I'm sure you wouldn't mind removing them from the woods while the rest of us hunt. 
The more I follow this thread the more inclined I am to support the ban on Game Cams during actual hunting season.
As has been pointed out, this is hunting, there should be an element of fair chase and I think that this deters from that.
Now you could argue that by using a rifle, I am more well equipped than a bow hunter.
Also, I DO have some pretty nice synthetic gear that makes my time afield more comfortable.
Or that BearPaws dogs give him an advantage chasing cats, that's your right.

But I really believe that this camera thing can lead to the use of more effective technology which could severely impact our sport.
I do have a couple cameras, and they will not be in the woods during the season.
They are kinda fun, but for me, more of a hassle.

I'm not trying to cut into your recreation with your family, but that's my opinion.

Later,
Rob.

   

[bigtex]

I was impressed with the game warden from Lincoln CO. whom I just met the other day in a hunters ED class.  He seemed like the type we want out in the field, 30yrs or so of service.  Hate to seem them older guys go, guys who are more like a traditional game warden than a police officer who happens to enforce game laws.   

I'm amazed by the difference in new hires between the states. I get to meet a lot of the new wardens in Idaho because the local region head warden trains many of Idaho's new wardens. They are around for a year or two and then take a position elsewhere in the state, mostly good guys who are hunters themselves. In Washington I'm amazed by how many new hires are not even hunters! They really are more suited to be police than wardens.

There actually are very few WDFW Officers who don't have a hunting background, and those typically are stationed in the saltwater areas.

There is a difference between many of your inland state wildlife officers and those in states that border the coast. In Idaho (and many other inland states) officers are both LEOs and biologists. They actually take part in biological survey, studies, etc. In WA, and many other coastal states officers are simply LEOs, the biologists do the bio work. The big reason is simply the coastal states have a bigger variety of species and seasons on their plate, mainly fish related. Back before the Dept. of Wildlife and Dept. of Fisheries merged in WA, the Wildlife Officers were like Idaho in that they were both LEOs and biologist, the Fisheries Officers were 100% LEOs.

[buglebrush]

BugleBrush,
Seeing how the camera's have never helped you kill animals, I'm sure you wouldn't mind removing them from the woods while the rest of us hunt. 
The more I follow this thread the more inclined I am to support the ban on Game Cams during actual hunting season.
As has been pointed out, this is hunting, there should be an element of fair chase and I think that this deters from that.
Now you could argue that by using a rifle, I am more well equipped than a bow hunter.
Also, I DO have some pretty nice synthetic gear that makes my time afield more comfortable.
Or that BearPaws dogs give him an advantage chasing cats, that's your right.

But I really believe that this camera thing can lead to the use of more effective technology which could severely impact our sport.
I do have a couple cameras, and they will not be in the woods during the season.
They are kinda fun, but for me, more of a hassle.

I'm not trying to cut into your recreation with your family, but that's my opinion.

Later,
Rob.

 

Well some of my cameras are so deep in, I only check them in the spring and then again during hunting season.  Maybe us bowhunters should start trying to outlaw guns, scopes, rangefinders, ATVs, camper trailers, etc...   
Why would we want to support cutting others freedoms just because we don't personally use them?   Like I said I could see the wireless argument, but can truly say the items I mentioned would prove far more impactful to fair chase than pulling a card during season.

[NW SURVEYOR]

BB,
I do personally use a couple of camera's, just not during hunting season.
As stated earlier, I believe there is to much room for them to be used in a manner inconsistant with "Fair Chase".
Most hunters are honest and respectful with regards to fair chaes, but many are not.
This is the reason Idaho is pursuing this.
You cannot indiscriminently write/apply laws, they must be written for everyone to obey.
If my/your toes get stepped on a bit, that's the price of having this technology.



As for bowhunters trying to outlaw guns, scopes, rangefinders, campers, etc., that seems a bit childish.
I imagine that many bowhunters use rangefinders, campers, ATVs and a few probably carry guns (Pistols).
Have fun with that.

I have no issue with bowhunters, rifle hunters or end-stuffers.
My issue is with the great potential to use very advanced technology to precisely target specific animals.

I respect and understand your position on this subject, I just disagree.

Thanks for allowing me to discuss this with you guys and gals.

Later,
Rob.

[buglebrush]

BB,
I do personally use a couple of camera's, just not during hunting season.
As stated earlier, I believe there is to much room for them to be used in a manner inconsistant with "Fair Chase".
Most hunters are honest and respectful with regards to fair chaes, but many are not.
This is the reason Idaho is pursuing this.
You cannot indiscriminently write/apply laws, they must be written for everyone to obey.
If my/your toes get stepped on a bit, that's the price of having this technology.



As for bowhunters trying to outlaw guns, scopes, rangefinders, campers, etc., that seems a bit childish.
I imagine that many bowhunters use rangefinders, campers, ATVs and a few probably carry guns (Pistols).
Have fun with that.

I have no issue with bowhunters, rifle hunters or end-stuffers.
My issue is with the great potential to use very advanced technology to precisely target specific animals.

I respect and understand your position on this subject, I just disagree.

Thanks for allowing me to discuss this with you guys and gals.

Later,
Rob.

The issue isn't your opinion on it.  That part is fine.  The issue lies in you wanting to curtail others freedom simply because you personally consider it not "Fair-Chase".  My point was that if I followed your logic I would outlaw the things mentioned as IMO they do greater harm to fairchase than simply swapping cards during hunting season on a camera that is 10 miles deep in the wilderness.   
 Just be grateful that, unlike yourself, most of us don't believe in curtailing your freedom simply because we may feel differently about ATVs, long-range rifles, etc... 

[Bob33]

BB,
I do personally use a couple of camera's, just not during hunting season.
As stated earlier, I believe there is to much room for them to be used in a manner inconsistant with "Fair Chase".
Most hunters are honest and respectful with regards to fair chaes, but many are not.
This is the reason Idaho is pursuing this.
You cannot indiscriminently write/apply laws, they must be written for everyone to obey.
If my/your toes get stepped on a bit, that's the price of having this technology.



As for bowhunters trying to outlaw guns, scopes, rangefinders, campers, etc., that seems a bit childish.
I imagine that many bowhunters use rangefinders, campers, ATVs and a few probably carry guns (Pistols).
Have fun with that.

I have no issue with bowhunters, rifle hunters or end-stuffers.
My issue is with the great potential to use very advanced technology to precisely target specific animals.

I respect and understand your position on this subject, I just disagree.

Thanks for allowing me to discuss this with you guys and gals.

Later,
Rob.

The issue isn't your opinion on it.  That part is fine.  The issue lies in you wanting to curtail others freedom simply because you personally consider it not "Fair-Chase".  My point was that if I followed your logic I would outlaw the things mentioned as IMO they do greater harm to fairchase than simply swapping cards during hunting season on a camera that is 10 miles deep in the wilderness.   
 Just be grateful that, unlike yourself, most of us don't believe in curtailing your freedom simply because we may feel differently about ATVs, long-range rifles, etc... 

Do you believe anything should be restricted in the interest of fair chase?

[buglebrush]

Yes.  As I said I feel completely different about wireless cameras/drones. 

[NW SURVEYOR]

BB,

Okay,
Let me get this straight;
You would outlaw guns, camper trailers, ATVs, rangefinders and scopes.
Are there any other things that you would "Outlaw"?
Please let me know so that I can plan accordingly.

If you have read my posts you would see that I am not in support of "Outlawing" anything.
It is my opinion that we should perhaps consider the intelligent use and application of technology.
No one is advocating taking away you precious camera, or the enjoyment it brings you and your family.
But with the fairly recent advent of the wireless downloads and such, this is an issue which has the potential for poaching in the worst way.
I don't believe that I am the only one that sees this as an issue.

We can take it one step further and limit the use of drones with mounted cameras during hunting season as well.
It's only a matter of time till someone gets caught shooting a nice bull that they flew over and found.
They will then put on a stalk and shoot the elk/deer that was until the shot, well hidden.
This is not fair chase, and if you think it is, we are really at opposite ends of the subject.

Let's take another example; what if you see a couple guys out a day or two before rifle elk season that have suppressors on their rifle?
They tell you that they're hunting coyotes with their trusty .338s.
They're good to go, right??
Opening morning you hear a couple shots and out strolls our new friends with a couple of cold bulls.
Hell, they're two for two, opening day, gotta like that.
Good for them, they're hunters of the new generation, success to them is dead elk whatever it takes.
And next year, they might bring a friend and show him the ropes; the more the merrier.

So, you tell a game warden that things might be a bit out of sorts, but no worries, they're legal.
Oh, yeah, they have 10 cameras in the woods all with live streams and a laptop in their daypack.
That's all right to, because we don't want to spoil their fun, or CURTAIL THEIR FREEDOM.

The problem is, everyone wants to have their rights extend into other peoples rights.
I'm no different, but I am trying to look at a practical solution to a problem which I believe does exist.
I also believe that the State of Idaho believes this problem exists or it would not put the time and effort into it.

I am not saying that this happens often, but the wardens need to have the tools to convict people using unethical means of taking game.
Notice I did not say "Poaching:, because it's not if the camera/drone is legal.
It's a tough thing to legislate, I don't know the answers but we better do something.

Like Dad said, "Ya can't have curly hair and everything".

Have a nice day!!
Rob.
   

[NW SURVEYOR]

BB,

Okay,
Let me get this straight;
You would outlaw guns, camper trailers, ATVs, rangefinders and scopes.
Are there any other things that you would "Outlaw"?
Please let me know so that I can plan accordingly.

If you have read my posts you would see that I am not in support of "Outlawing" anything.
It is my opinion that we should perhaps consider the intelligent use and application of technology.
No one is advocating taking away you precious camera, or the enjoyment it brings you and your family.
But with the fairly recent advent of the wireless downloads and such, this is an issue which has the potential for poaching in the worst way.
I don't believe that I am the only one that sees this as an issue.

We can take it one step further and limit the use of drones with mounted cameras during hunting season as well.
It's only a matter of time till someone gets caught shooting a nice bull that they flew over and found.
They will then put on a stalk and shoot the elk/deer that was until the shot, well hidden.
This is not fair chase, and if you think it is, we are really at opposite ends of the subject.

Let's take another example; what if you see a couple guys out a day or two before rifle elk season that have suppressors on their rifle?
They tell you that they're hunting coyotes with their trusty .338s.
They're good to go, right??
Opening morning you hear a couple shots and out strolls our new friends with a couple of cold bulls.
Hell, they're two for two, opening day, gotta like that.
Good for them, they're hunters of the new generation, success to them is dead elk whatever it takes.
And next year, they might bring a friend and show him the ropes; the more the merrier.

So, you tell a game warden that things might be a bit out of sorts, but no worries, they're legal.
Oh, yeah, they have 10 cameras in the woods all with live streams and a laptop in their daypack.
That's all right to, because we don't want to spoil their fun, or CURTAIL THEIR FREEDOM.

The problem is, everyone wants to have their rights extend into other peoples rights.
I'm no different, but I am trying to look at a practical solution to a problem which I believe does exist.
I also believe that the State of Idaho believes this problem exists or it would not put the time and effort into it.

I am not saying that this happens often, but the wardens need to have the tools to convict people using unethical means of taking game.
Notice I did not say "Poaching:, because it's not if the camera/drone is legal.
It's a tough thing to legislate, I don't know the answers but we better do something.

Like Dad said, "Ya can't have curly hair and everything".

Have a nice day!!
Rob.
   

[bearpaw]

The problem is that too many hunters will advocate banning whatever they don't use or whatever is in their view not necessary. If we continue down this road soon all that will be left are the most popular activities and everyone will be wondering why we can't do anything else! 

[Bob33]

The problem is that too many hunters will advocate banning whatever they don't use or whatever is in their view not necessary. If we continue down this road soon all that will be left are the most popular activities and everyone will be wondering why we can't do anything else! 

I don't see it that way. This discussion is about technology that didn't even exist ten years ago.

[buglebrush]

The problem is that too many hunters will advocate banning whatever they don't use or whatever is in their view not necessary. If we continue down this road soon all that will be left are the most popular activities and everyone will be wondering why we can't do anything else! 

Thank You.  That's what I was trying to say. 

[buglebrush]

BB,

Okay,
Let me get this straight;
You would outlaw guns, camper trailers, ATVs, rangefinders and scopes.
Are there any other things that you would "Outlaw"?
Please let me know so that I can plan accordingly.

If you have read my posts you would see that I am not in support of "Outlawing" anything.
It is my opinion that we should perhaps consider the intelligent use and application of technology.
No one is advocating taking away you precious camera, or the enjoyment it brings you and your family.
But with the fairly recent advent of the wireless downloads and such, this is an issue which has the potential for poaching in the worst way.
I don't believe that I am the only one that sees this as an issue.

We can take it one step further and limit the use of drones with mounted cameras during hunting season as well.
It's only a matter of time till someone gets caught shooting a nice bull that they flew over and found.
They will then put on a stalk and shoot the elk/deer that was until the shot, well hidden.
This is not fair chase, and if you think it is, we are really at opposite ends of the subject.

Let's take another example; what if you see a couple guys out a day or two before rifle elk season that have suppressors on their rifle?
They tell you that they're hunting coyotes with their trusty .338s.
They're good to go, right??
Opening morning you hear a couple shots and out strolls our new friends with a couple of cold bulls.
Hell, they're two for two, opening day, gotta like that.
Good for them, they're hunters of the new generation, success to them is dead elk whatever it takes.
And next year, they might bring a friend and show him the ropes; the more the merrier.

So, you tell a game warden that things might be a bit out of sorts, but no worries, they're legal.
Oh, yeah, they have 10 cameras in the woods all with live streams and a laptop in their daypack.
That's all right to, because we don't want to spoil their fun, or CURTAIL THEIR FREEDOM.

The problem is, everyone wants to have their rights extend into other peoples rights.
I'm no different, but I am trying to look at a practical solution to a problem which I believe does exist.
I also believe that the State of Idaho believes this problem exists or it would not put the time and effort into it.

I am not saying that this happens often, but the wardens need to have the tools to convict people using unethical means of taking game.
Notice I did not say "Poaching:, because it's not if the camera/drone is legal.
It's a tough thing to legislate, I don't know the answers but we better do something.

Like Dad said, "Ya can't have curly hair and everything".

Have a nice day!!
Rob.
 

I quite clearly stated that I would not outlaw those things, but that if I behaved like YOU in this quote
"The more I follow this thread the more inclined I am to support the ban on Game Cams during actual hunting season."
Then those are the things I would ban, since I believe they are more detrimental to fair chase than simply swapping cards in a standard non wireless cameras. Are you purposely being facetious? 

[bigmacc]

BB,

Okay,
Let me get this straight;
You would outlaw guns, camper trailers, ATVs, rangefinders and scopes.
Are there any other things that you would "Outlaw"?
Please let me know so that I can plan accordingly.

If you have read my posts you would see that I am not in support of "Outlawing" anything.
It is my opinion that we should perhaps consider the intelligent use and application of technology.
No one is advocating taking away you precious camera, or the enjoyment it brings you and your family.
But with the fairly recent advent of the wireless downloads and such, this is an issue which has the potential for poaching in the worst way.
I don't believe that I am the only one that sees this as an issue.

We can take it one step further and limit the use of drones with mounted cameras during hunting season as well.
It's only a matter of time till someone gets caught shooting a nice bull that they flew over and found.
They will then put on a stalk and shoot the elk/deer that was until the shot, well hidden.
This is not fair chase, and if you think it is, we are really at opposite ends of the subject.

Let's take another example; what if you see a couple guys out a day or two before rifle elk season that have suppressors on their rifle?
They tell you that they're hunting coyotes with their trusty .338s.
They're good to go, right??
Opening morning you hear a couple shots and out strolls our new friends with a couple of cold bulls.
Hell, they're two for two, opening day, gotta like that.
Good for them, they're hunters of the new generation, success to them is dead elk whatever it takes.
And next year, they might bring a friend and show him the ropes; the more the merrier.

So, you tell a game warden that things might be a bit out of sorts, but no worries, they're legal.
Oh, yeah, they have 10 cameras in the woods all with live streams and a laptop in their daypack.
That's all right to, because we don't want to spoil their fun, or CURTAIL THEIR FREEDOM.

The problem is, everyone wants to have their rights extend into other peoples rights.
I'm no different, but I am trying to look at a practical solution to a problem which I believe does exist.
I also believe that the State of Idaho believes this problem exists or it would not put the time and effort into it.

I am not saying that this happens often, but the wardens need to have the tools to convict people using unethical means of taking game.
Notice I did not say "Poaching:, because it's not if the camera/drone is legal.
It's a tough thing to legislate, I don't know the answers but we better do something.

Like Dad said, "Ya can't have curly hair and everything".

Have a nice day!!
Rob.
 

Well said.......