I love wolves. Seriously.

[JakeLand]

Well we thoroughly exhausted this topic.

Nine years of BS from the pro-wolfers, and most people have the reasons behind wolves figured out, those who pretend wolves are a good thing, support the agenda of no hunting etc..

So far most of the BS and stupid predictions have came from the wildly anti wolf folks here (you) including the big lawsuit you had planned, the decimation of elk populations w/in ten years, and the end of hunting in WA state.  You guys were wrong.
Wolves are just another piece of wildlife, when they are recovered we need to manage them. Eliminating them isn't an option.

Wolves in Washington is one of the most stupid moves this state has made ! Now let's add grizzlies to the mix

[wolfbait]

Well we thoroughly exhausted this topic.

Nine years of BS from the pro-wolfers, and most people have the reasons behind wolves figured out, those who pretend wolves are a good thing, support the agenda of no hunting etc..

So far most of the BS and stupid predictions have came from the wildly anti wolf folks here (you) including the big lawsuit you had planned, the decimation of elk populations w/in ten years, and the end of hunting in WA state.  You guys were wrong.
Wolves are just another piece of wildlife, when they are recovered we need to manage them. Eliminating them isn't an option.

Thanks for setting everyone straight Wacoyote 

You seem to always jump to the stupidity of elimination, when you know as well as many that killing half of them would be just about impossible without poisons, areal gunning etc. while WDFW crap their pants and run the other way when wolves are caught killing livestock.


I wonder if you could give us a hint on how long it will be before wolves in WA will be recovered? You do know that ID, MT, and Wyoming were eligible for delisting in 6 years. Here it is 15 years later and WA STILL does not have enough wolves to delist according to WDFW efforts.


We weren't totally wrong Wacoyote, we just had our dates a little short, wolves will be the end of hunting in WA. and as for management I will refer you to the paragraph above and the stupidity of elimination.

You know that you and the rest of the pro-wolfers won the wolf battle in WA with the bogus wolf plan, and the lack of confirming wolves unless forced to do so. My question to you is, why do you continue to pack water for those who lied and are still lying about wolves. Seems kind of stupid to keep jumping up and down on your junk when most people by now realize that bring the wolves in was not for the good of anyone or anything, but instead to end hunting and get livestock off public lands.

You need to get away from your motherly protection of WDF&Wolves.

[WAcoyotehunter]

You know that you and the rest of the pro-wolfers won the wolf battle in WA with the bogus wolf plan, and the lack of confirming wolves unless forced to do so. My question to you is, why do you continue to pack water for those who lied and are still lying about wolves. Seems kind of stupid to keep jumping up and down on your junk when most people by now realize that bring the wolves in was not for the good of anyone or anything, but instead to end hunting and get livestock off public lands.

You need to get away from your motherly protection of WDF&Wolves.

What is anyone lying about?  And where are you seeing me defend them?  I haven't said anything about wolves being good for things, but I'm also not saying that they are the end of the world.

Are you still arguing that the WDFW "brought wolves in"? LOL

[wolfbait]

You know that you and the rest of the pro-wolfers won the wolf battle in WA with the bogus wolf plan, and the lack of confirming wolves unless forced to do so. My question to you is, why do you continue to pack water for those who lied and are still lying about wolves. Seems kind of stupid to keep jumping up and down on your junk when most people by now realize that bring the wolves in was not for the good of anyone or anything, but instead to end hunting and get livestock off public lands.

You need to get away from your motherly protection of WDF&Wolves.

What is anyone lying about?  And where are you seeing me defend them?  I haven't said anything about wolves being good for things, but I'm also not saying that they are the end of the world.

Are you still arguing that the WDFW "brought wolves in"? LOL

You are too funny Wacoyote, I can certainly see the resemblance between you and bill clinton...

[KFhunter]

Wolves aren't the end of the world, but they will be the end of moose hunting, OTC Elk, and cattle/sheep grazing on public lands -and more importantly- a lot of private lands.


 They'll also make deer hunting on public lands a lot more difficult as the deer stack up on inaccessible private ag lands.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Wolves aren't the end of the world, but they will be the end of moose hunting, OTC Elk, and cattle/sheep grazing on public lands -and more importantly- a lot of private lands.


 They'll also make deer hunting on public lands a lot more difficult as the deer stack up on inaccessible private ag lands.

Moose are certainly on a decline, and wolves are a contributing factor, but it's no exactly accurate to place the blame on them.  I'm curious to hear your predicted timeline for the end of public land grazing and OTC elk (which was even discussed before wolves were here).

And I'm really curious (dubious) about your claim that we are going to lose private lands.  Explain how that's going to happen???

You know that you and the rest of the pro-wolfers won the wolf battle in WA with the bogus wolf plan, and the lack of confirming wolves unless forced to do so. My question to you is, why do you continue to pack water for those who lied and are still lying about wolves. Seems kind of stupid to keep jumping up and down on your junk when most people by now realize that bring the wolves in was not for the good of anyone or anything, but instead to end hunting and get livestock off public lands.

You need to get away from your motherly protection of WDF&Wolves.

What is anyone lying about?  And where are you seeing me defend them?  I haven't said anything about wolves being good for things, but I'm also not saying that they are the end of the world.

Are you still arguing that the WDFW "brought wolves in"? LOL

You are too funny Wacoyote, I can certainly see the resemblance between you and bill clinton...

you're the one making jokes- just answer the question.

[KFhunter]

Moose are certainly on a decline, and wolves are a contributing factor, but it's not exactly accurate to place the blame on them.  None of this makes since, it doesn't add up.


I'm curious to hear your predicted timeline for the end of public land grazing and OTC elk (which was even discussed before wolves were here).

And I'm really curious (dubious) about your claim that we are going to lose private lands.  Not sure I understand the question here, we aren't loosing public lands I never said that.   Explain how that's going to happen???

Moose were in the rise in numbers until very recently, now they are on the decline and it corresponds directly to the wolf incline.  I'm not sure how the argument can be made that wolves aren't to blame for this? 

"wolves are a contributing factor" does not equal "wolves aren't to blame" so which is it? 

Or are you stating that the amount the wolves contribute to the moose decline is over stated?  How do you support that when the numbers state just the opposite?

I spend a lot of time with the moose in the winter months and I'm here to tell you that everywhere I see moose I see wolf scat with suspected moose hair in it.  Last several winters I've seen many cows, and none of them had a calf at their side in wolf areas.   Not. A. ONE!

So tell me how wolves aren't THE major contributing factor to the moose decline when a cow can't raise a calf?  Especially when moose were on the rebound just prior to wolves showing up en masse?

Public land grazing is already on the decline and has been for years, it was on a decline prior to wolves and it's even further on the decline now.  This is mostly due to government regulations making it too difficult to secure and establish large tracts of public land to graze.  There's less available labor to build the required fences, install contractual upgrades to the lands (water, road work, cattle guards) and to adhere to intensive grazing management required in nearly all public graze contracts.  It used to be that in free range areas it was your duty to fence cows out if you didn't want them in your garden, now it's the other way around. Not that I'm making a big deal of fencing cows off private lands as part of a contract but it is an example of how it's evolved. 
I've tried to get into this myself but I can't build 4 miles of fence, install cattle guards and do all the necessary contractual requirements while holding a day job.  That's fine, it's not my primary job or way of life, but if it were then the margin of profit to be had on public grazing is getting less and less feasible.  Add wolves to this mix, loose some cows and the numbers just don't add up.  It's too bad, grazing if done right adds a lot of value to the land and increases hunting opportunity.  Everyone wants to talk about $1.50 AUM like it's some sort of freebee, it is not. The expense is in the details, the labor and all of the other stuff required of that contract.

What really burns my rear is that wolves are having such a big effect on PRIVATE grazing, the sheep farmers for instance (won't mention names as they've gotten death threats) lost many sheep to wolves even having been held up as great example of cooperative efforts between the livestock owner and wolf groups.  They used all the fladery, range riders and worked very closely with WDFW and NGO groups - but all for naught.  WDFW decided to eliminate wolves through contracted wildlife control, they shot a breeder female and all hell broke loose.  The sheep farmers went from being on a pedestal and held up as an example of cooperation to scum of the earth welfare grazers over night (even though it was all private lands) and getting routine death threats.  They did every thing "right",  wolves will be wolves after all.

Even now, WDFW is making it harder to graze cattle with their mandatory wolf avoidance crap (even though proven ineffective), 3 animals must die before action is taken.  And....they must be confirmed wolf depredation which is difficult at best. 



Profanity peak wolves are in the news again right now, I'm curious - did you read the part where it says:  "A range rider found the dead cow",  that's what range riders do, they find and document dead cows.  Keep in mind they're suppose to keep the wolves off cows but that isn't reality on the ground.  Wolves kill in the night when range riders are present, they often find them in the morning when the wolves' bellies are full and birds are circling.

[wolfbait]

Wolves aren't the end of the world, but they will be the end of moose hunting, OTC Elk, and cattle/sheep grazing on public lands -and more importantly- a lot of private lands.


 They'll also make deer hunting on public lands a lot more difficult as the deer stack up on inaccessible private ag lands.

Moose are certainly on a decline, and wolves are a contributing factor, but it's no exactly accurate to place the blame on them.  I'm curious to hear your predicted timeline for the end of public land grazing and OTC elk (which was even discussed before wolves were here).

And I'm really curious (dubious) about your claim that we are going to lose private lands.  Explain how that's going to happen???

You know that you and the rest of the pro-wolfers won the wolf battle in WA with the bogus wolf plan, and the lack of confirming wolves unless forced to do so. My question to you is, why do you continue to pack water for those who lied and are still lying about wolves. Seems kind of stupid to keep jumping up and down on your junk when most people by now realize that bring the wolves in was not for the good of anyone or anything, but instead to end hunting and get livestock off public lands.

You need to get away from your motherly protection of WDF&Wolves.

What is anyone lying about?  And where are you seeing me defend them?  I haven't said anything about wolves being good for things, but I'm also not saying that they are the end of the world.

Are you still arguing that the WDFW "brought wolves in"? LOL

You are too funny Wacoyote, I can certainly see the resemblance between you and bill clinton...

you're the one making jokes- just answer the question.

I wasn't joking WAcoyote, As far as WDFW releasing wolves, we are way past any effort in holding them accountable, like one county commissioner stated, without video they would just lie out of it.

[jmscon]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/01/13/winter-ticks-exact-heavy-toll-new-england-moose/PmpQ3QAHm9C1imAxkzMhDM/amp.html
No wolves there

[idaho guy]

Wolves.  These types of threads keep putting up by people who don't actually live in Wolf infested country, and don't know what they are taking about.  It just gets tiresome.   

Responses like this get tiresome as well.  Where exactly is this wolf infested country you speak of?  You ever even seen a track?

Track?    I've seen wolves.  Multiple times.  Had a wolf come right into our yard and try to get our dog.  Have heard them howling more times than I can remember. Been followed off the mountain when packing meat with wolves howling all around me for hours. Have been on successful Wolf hunts.  Have friends who trap them.  Have had my best lion hound tore to shreds by wolves.  Have found where they killed a whole string of deer, and never ate a bite, because they could run on top while the deer broke through.  I'm a third generation Idahoan that has lived & hunted in this area for over 30 years.  And yeah I've definitely seen tracks too.   

Elkinrut this is not an attack on you or your knowledge of Idaho but an explanation as to why you think wolves are no "big deal"
Elkinrut the reason you both live in the panhandle but have a very different opinion is bugle has lived and hunted in Idaho for 30 years and he said he is a 3rd generation Idahoan.  I am willing to bet you moved here maybe 4-5 years ago? I don't remember elk ever just standing out in the open before wolves by the way. Idaho got after wolves in 2009 and then again(when allowed) and ever since 2011. I don't think you have seen great remote elk areas get decimated but most long time Idaho hunters have including me. The fish & game has done a great job and elk hunting in a lot of areas has come back and some areas never were really affected. After wolves got bad and infested more remote areas the elk moved closer to roads and into town and close by. The remote areas where you cant control wolves very well (think selway) may never come back to what they were. Its not that you cant hunt and trap these areas its the time factor of doing this enough to control a predator that can give birth twice a year to 6-8 or more new ones a year.  The moose in unit 1 (not all areas but some of  the best) have been hammered. I drew a one week late permit a few years ago and shot a dandy bull but what was sad was to see how few moose there was compared to the "good old days" So this is not about gee I killed a big bull wolves must not be that bad or if you just hunted harder you would have success. I have seen no real upside to wolves besides being able to hunt and trap them. Idaho was better off without them but I am willing to live with them since I have no choice. Before you ask I have seen a wolf track, heard wolves howl, called in and shot a wolf, had wolves come into our elk calls while bowhunting and my partner shot one with his bow, trapped a wolf which escaped and had half my buddies bear dogs killed by them. This is not critical of your ability as a hunter or that you know your way around some of the woods in Idaho it is just my opinion as to why you see wolves as no problem and don't understand why a lot of Idaho hunters hate them. I saw the bull you posted last year btw nice job! To the op just wait a few more years and I will bet you a hundred dollars you will also no longer "love" wolves. Check in with me in 2021 and get my address as to where to send the check!       

[idaho guy]

Cattle are not an invasive or introduced species, they don't live in the woods year around seeking their own survival and propagation.  They are a forest use item, like ATVs, fishing, logging and hunting.

 

I read a really interesting study about cattle grazing replacing the role of the huge herds of buffalo that used to range all over the plains of Montana. I agree 100% that environmentalist are hyped up radicals that spend limited time in the outdoors and most but not all hunters should be called conservationist. Enviromentalist seem to believe man should not be part of the outdoors in any way, conservationist understand that man has ALWAYS been part of nature from the beginning and if we are good stewards we can and have improved it.

[buglebrush]

Wolves.  These types of threads keep putting up by people who don't actually live in Wolf infested country, and don't know what they are taking about.  It just gets tiresome.   

Responses like this get tiresome as well.  Where exactly is this wolf infested country you speak of?  You ever even seen a track?

Track?    I've seen wolves.  Multiple times.  Had a wolf come right into our yard and try to get our dog.  Have heard them howling more times than I can remember. Been followed off the mountain when packing meat with wolves howling all around me for hours. Have been on successful Wolf hunts.  Have friends who trap them.  Have had my best lion hound tore to shreds by wolves.  Have found where they killed a whole string of deer, and never ate a bite, because they could run on top while the deer broke through.  I'm a third generation Idahoan that has lived & hunted in this area for over 30 years.  And yeah I've definitely seen tracks too.   

Elkinrut this is not an attack on you or your knowledge of Idaho but an explanation as to why you think wolves are no "big deal"
Elkinrut the reason you both live in the panhandle but have a very different opinion is bugle has lived and hunted in Idaho for 30 years and he said he is a 3rd generation Idahoan.  I am willing to bet you moved here maybe 4-5 years ago? I don't remember elk ever just standing out in the open before wolves by the way. Idaho got after wolves in 2009 and then again(when allowed) and ever since 2011. I don't think you have seen great remote elk areas get decimated but most long time Idaho hunters have including me. The fish & game has done a great job and elk hunting in a lot of areas has come back and some areas never were really affected. After wolves got bad and infested more remote areas the elk moved closer to roads and into town and close by. The remote areas where you cant control wolves very well (think selway) may never come back to what they were. Its not that you cant hunt and trap these areas its the time factor of doing this enough to control a predator that can give birth twice a year to 6-8 or more new ones a year.  The moose in unit 1 (not all areas but some of  the best) have been hammered. I drew a one week late permit a few years ago and shot a dandy bull but what was sad was to see how few moose there was compared to the "good old days" So this is not about gee I killed a big bull wolves must not be that bad or if you just hunted harder you would have success. I have seen no real upside to wolves besides being able to hunt and trap them. Idaho was better off without them but I am willing to live with them since I have no choice. Before you ask I have seen a wolf track, heard wolves howl, called in and shot a wolf, had wolves come into our elk calls while bowhunting and my partner shot one with his bow, trapped a wolf which escaped and had half my buddies bear dogs killed by them. This is not critical of your ability as a hunter or that you know your way around some of the woods in Idaho it is just my opinion as to why you see wolves as no problem and don't understand why a lot of Idaho hunters hate them. I saw the bull you posted last year btw nice job! To the op just wait a few more years and I will bet you a hundred dollars you will also no longer "love" wolves. Check in with me in 2021 and get my address as to where to send the check!