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Author Topic: Colockum Spike rule change?  (Read 20041 times)

Offline Buckrub

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2009, 05:01:39 AM »
Begging your pardon, Buckrub, but I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Washington 'squares' the points. So if a guy has accumulated 15 points, his name will be "in the hat" 225 times.

Glad somebody caught that....does 225 entries get someone a tag?
15 points = 15years without a tag....careful what you wish for.
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Offline Snapshot

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2009, 08:32:59 PM »
Buckrub,
What I wish for is that the Westside will always have general season '3 point minimum' units where a guy who only hunts elk for the occasional chance to slow dance with a good bull will always have a place to go to attempt to make that happen.
Snappy
I'd just like to remind everybody that it's about the hunting, not just the killing. In other words, it's about the total experience, the sport itself and the challenge involved. Bowhunting, done right, is a justifiable and honorable pursuit. Done for the wrong reasons, simply chalking up kills and seeking personal glory, it's taking away rather than giving back to a principled way of life that has to be experienced to be understood. G.StCharles

Offline MichaelJ

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2009, 08:47:23 PM »
Buckrub, is it better to have a system where you can put in with only a few bonus points and have a chance at drawing a tag or do only the older generations who have been putting in for tags and have those 15+ bonus points get their tags before those with less points get drawn?  With what you're complaining about, I would NEVER draw a tag as I've only had a few years of hunting to acquire bonus points and improve my odds but if we make sure only those with max points draw then I'll never have a chance. 

IMHO from what I've read you're pretty dillusional about your management proposals...  You just want to be able to hunt year after year and want to be able to hunt branch bulls every year regardless of herd conditions... Well I got some solutions for you... go hunt Oregon, go hunt Idaho, go hunt the Westside of the state and let the colockum be managed by those who care more about the elk than getting their hunting time in year after year...

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Offline colockumelk

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2009, 10:39:01 PM »

Nice Michael.  Nice.
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Offline colockumelk

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2009, 11:37:29 PM »
Go to this link and it will show you just how many more branch bull permits there could be given out every year if it was permit only.  I also added the numbers for if the Yakima herd was permit only.  It's an increas of about 3.42 times more permits given out.  This means you all would get drawn 3.42 times more often for a big bull.  For some archery units that would be every single year.   :drool:
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Offline MichaelJ

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2009, 12:34:58 AM »
You forgot the link there Colockum!  Its gettin late!   :o

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Offline bowhuntin

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2009, 12:42:46 AM »
Go to this link and it will show you just how many more branch bull permits there could be given out every year if it was permit only.  I also added the numbers for if the Yakima herd was permit only.  It's an increas of about 3.42 times more permits given out.  This means you all would get drawn 3.42 times more often for a big bull.  For some archery units that would be every single year.   :drool:

I think this is the link you forgot to post...

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,22997.msg264574/topicseen.html#new

Offline Buckrub

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2009, 12:42:10 PM »
Buckrub, is it better to have a system where you can put in with only a few bonus points and have a chance at drawing a tag or do only the older generations who have been putting in for tags and have those 15+ bonus points get their tags before those with less points get drawn?  With what you're complaining about, I would NEVER draw a tag as I've only had a few years of hunting to acquire bonus points and improve my odds but if we make sure only those with max points draw then I'll never have a chance. 

IMHO from what I've read you're pretty dillusional about your management proposals...  You just want to be able to hunt year after year and want to be able to hunt branch bulls every year regardless of herd conditions... Well I got some solutions for you... go hunt Oregon, go hunt Idaho, go hunt the Westside of the state and let the colockum be managed by those who care more about the elk than getting their hunting time in year after year...

Michael


You are forgetting the thousands of general season hunters who don't draw or didn't put in.

Clockum throws out tons of numbers but forgets about all the hunters and where they would go. Quote" some hunters would just quit" IMO less hunters is less of a voice and you already getting screwed. Maybe you are one of those hunters who would just quit.

Never once did I say hunt without regard to the elk population....I am fighting for you to have a good hunt every year. I have killed my big bulls and don't have enough room for more. I am a public land bowhunter.

Your statement conflicts itself...if you can't think past yourself don't try to post a crazy statement like this one, in other words "grow up".

Simple fact...escapement can be controlled and the general season hunter deserves to hunt and elk deserve better management.



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Offline Buckrub

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2009, 12:51:21 PM »
Go to this link and it will show you just how many more branch bull permits there could be given out every year if it was permit only.  I also added the numbers for if the Yakima herd was permit only.  It's an increas of about 3.42 times more permits given out.  This means you all would get drawn 3.42 times more often for a big bull.  For some archery units that would be every single year.   :drool:

Your numbers are flawed...you try to make it sound like the average hunter would get drawn more often but you can't control the amount of permits given out or the thousands of new entries from general season hunters.

It takes about 4 years to draw a permit on average...you might see ten year average with your proposal...one hunt every ten years...now there is something to look forward to.

You forget why the elk are even there, because us older hunters wanted better, this current system is not what we had in mind when they said temporary.
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Offline Cougeyes

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2009, 02:47:46 PM »
I have to agree with Buckrub that I am concerned with where the hunters that hunt the colockum would go.  I'm not sold that they would just quit hunting elk all together.  I think they would bumbard the Yakima GMU's and the harvest of spikes would increase in those units potentially creating a problem there as well. 

I'm all for shutting down roads as i've been a firm believer that will stop a lot of people and subsequently lower harvest.  I do agree that those "other" hunters are not accounted for and agree that if it went to permit only there would be a lot more applicants.  I'm one of those hunters that only put in for the bull tags and dont even bother hunting for spike.  I just can't see those hunters that hunt spikes just quiting. 


Offline colockumelk

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2009, 11:01:37 PM »
Buckrub youre numbers are flawed.  You don't even have any numbers.  You don't have any stats or facts to back anything you have said up.  You don't even know how the special permits system works until we corrected you on here.  You have continuously said that drawing a branch bull tag is an OIL tag. 

My numbers and my FACTS and STATS are true.  I took them from sources I can site using permit techniques that the WDFW currently uses, using harvest reports and data done by surveys and studies.  My numbers are not flawed.  I'd say you're numbers are flawed but you don't have any.  You just pull things out of your assumptions.  Please explain to us how and why if it was permit only where they are giving out 3.42 times more permits that it would take 10 years to draw a permit when on average it only takes 6 for rifle and 4 for bow?  I'm wondering what sort of math you use?

Here's the math that I use.  More permits equals getting drawn more often.  Pretty simple.  So please share with us the research that you have done that debunks all of my research.  Cite some sources and show us your numbers if mine are so flawed.  I don't mind a good debate and a difference of opinion, hell that's why I come here but when someone calls me a liar and says my info is flawed when that person doesn't have anything but opinions and assumptions then I get pissed and take offense.

I doubt I'll respond to anymore of your lies until you show me some research and cold hard facts.
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Offline Elkaholic daWg

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #71 on: March 22, 2009, 01:41:26 PM »
  Just read the Summary of public comments for the Ellensburg meeting from links in an alert I recieved.
 I believe this is Colockumelk.... (Summaries)
    Go Permit only on the Colockum. Bulls are down 70% in five years. True spike is not the answer.


 Now the agency response

  "There are over 6000 hunters that hunt the Colockum elk herd during the general season. The agency is not ready to implement that drastic of of a measure at this time"
 
 Next comment
 supports true spike in the Colockum, unless it needs to be closed for conservation

 Response
"the Colockum herd is not in a condition that would require a conservation closure at this time. Thank you for the support

 Next comment
 If youneed to go permit only on the Colockum, then close it for a year.

  Response
 "the Colockum herd is not in a condition that would require a conservation closure at this time"



 Looks like it will be true spike for now.


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Offline colockumelk

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #72 on: March 22, 2009, 06:35:57 PM »
That's cool where did you find that?  As for the comments only the first one would be mine. 
The others must have been from other people. 
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Offline Elkaholic daWg

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2009, 09:33:41 AM »
 one of the other 2 was me.




Here it is from the Friday WDFW Alert. links should get you there


From:  WDFW Public Affairs (do.not.reply@dfw.wa.gov) 
Sent: Fri 3/20/09 5:30 PM


WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/

March 20, 2009
Contact:  Susan Yeager, (360) 902-2267

Fish and Wildlife Commission will consider
proposed hunting rules for 2009-11

OLYMPIA - The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission will consider adopting a three-year package of statewide hunting seasons and rules during a public meeting scheduled April 3-4 in Olympia.

The commission, which sets policy for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), will meet both days at 8:30 a.m. in Room 172 of the Natural Resources Building at 1111 Washington St. S.E.

Hunting seasons under consideration include those for deer, elk, moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat, black bear, cougar and small game in 2009, 2010 and 2011. 

Commissioners also will consider proposed revisions in special seasons and hunting restrictions; opportunities for terminally ill and disabled hunters; landowner hunting permits and damage-prevention permit hunts; trapping seasons; big game and wild turkey auctions, raffle and special-incentive permits; special closures and game management unit boundary descriptions; non-toxic shot requirements; and hunting equipment restrictions.

The commission is scheduled to take action on the three-year hunting plan April 4, the second day of the public meeting.  Proposals now before the commission are posted at http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/index.htm#recommendations on the WDFW website.

Several of those proposals reflect changes made in response to public testimony at the commission's meeting last month in Ellensburg, said Dave Ware, WDFW game manager.  No further public testimony is scheduled on the three-year hunting plan at the April 3-4 commission meeting.

The proposals, developed after extensive public involvement, are based on the 2009-15 Game Management Plan, available at http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/management/2009-2015/  .

On the first day of the meeting, the commission is scheduled to take action on two proposed land transactions and will receive briefings from WDFW staff on issues ranging from the state's aquaculture industry to illegal marijuana growing on public lands.

A meeting agenda and background materials are posted on the commission's website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings.html


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Offline Elkaholic daWg

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Re: Colockum Spike rule change?
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2009, 09:43:01 AM »
one of the other 2 was me.




Here it is from the Friday WDFW Alert. links should get you there


From:  WDFW Public Affairs (do.not.reply@dfw.wa.gov) 
Sent: Fri 3/20/09 5:30 PM


WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/

March 20, 2009
Contact:  Susan Yeager, (360) 902-2267

Fish and Wildlife Commission will consider
proposed hunting rules for 2009-11

OLYMPIA - The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission will consider adopting a three-year package of statewide hunting seasons and rules during a public meeting scheduled April 3-4 in Olympia.

The commission, which sets policy for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), will meet both days at 8:30 a.m. in Room 172 of the Natural Resources Building at 1111 Washington St. S.E.

Hunting seasons under consideration include those for deer, elk, moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat, black bear, cougar and small game in 2009, 2010 and 2011. 

Commissioners also will consider proposed revisions in special seasons and hunting restrictions; opportunities for terminally ill and disabled hunters; landowner hunting permits and damage-prevention permit hunts; trapping seasons; big game and wild turkey auctions, raffle and special-incentive permits; special closures and game management unit boundary descriptions; non-toxic shot requirements; and hunting equipment restrictions.

The commission is scheduled to take action on the three-year hunting plan April 4, the second day of the public meeting.  Proposals now before the commission are posted at http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/index.htm#recommendations on the WDFW website.

Several of those proposals reflect changes made in response to public testimony at the commission's meeting last month in Ellensburg, said Dave Ware, WDFW game manager.  No further public testimony is scheduled on the three-year hunting plan at the April 3-4 commission meeting.

The proposals, developed after extensive public involvement, are based on the 2009-15 Game Management Plan, available at http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/management/2009-2015/  .

On the first day of the meeting, the commission is scheduled to take action on two proposed land transactions and will receive briefings from WDFW staff on issues ranging from the state's aquaculture industry to illegal marijuana growing on public lands.

A meeting agenda and background materials are posted on the commission's website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings.html






 Anyone going?
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