Should 209 primers be legal?

[Fl0und3rz]

Yes.

[winshooter88]

First off I have no dog in this fight, but what I noticed in the posts, is that the majority of the folks are saying that the 209 primers don't make any difference most say in velocity. If that is the case why do they seem to want it so badly? To the person who said that Muzzleloader season isn't a primitive weapons season, you might want to check again, it is supposed to be a primitive weapons season, that is why you don't have to hunt with the modern rifle hunters. The reason that caps and nipples were allowed is that they were newest ignition system allowed was that on the primitive muzzleloaders, that was the best option that was still considered primitive, the 209 primers are not considered a primitive form of ignition by any standard I have seen.

[JeffRaines]

First off I have no dog in this fight, but what I noticed in the posts, is that the majority of the folks are saying that the 209 primers don't make any difference most say in velocity. If that is the case why do they seem to want it so badly? To the person who said that Muzzleloader season isn't a primitive weapons season, you might want to check again, it is supposed to be a primitive weapons season, that is why you don't have to hunt with the modern rifle hunters. The reason that caps and nipples were allowed is that they were newest ignition system allowed was that on the primitive muzzleloaders, that was the best option that was still considered primitive, the 209 primers are not considered a primitive form of ignition by any standard I have seen.

Slightly more consistent ignition coupled with the ability to use BH209 powder.

If you voted no and use a modern muzzle loader like a Knight, you are a hypocrite. You are already using modern technology. The 209 primer doesn't change a thing. If you want it to be "primitive", go back to flint lock and an open pan only.

I agree. I was having an argument on Facebook and someone was trying to say that using musket caps are 'traditional'  :roll eyes:

Look guys, I'd get it if we were voting to allow inlines with cap ignition and modern projectiles... that would be a huge jump in effectiveness over an older flintlock style with pan ignition and more primitive projectiles. Hell, I'd understand if it were a vote on optics(which I am 100% against). The inlines are hardly 'primitive', the projectiles used today are hardly 'primitive'.

I also think its incredibly ridiculous to think that the modern hunters are going to come running over to muzzy once 209 primers are allowed. I could see an influx of people if you were to allow optics, however. I realize the effective range of muzzleloaders nowadays is 150-200 yards, and I've even heard of 300 yard shots being made with optics. Your average guy who hunts modern probably hunts with a group of people, they're not going to jump ship unless a majority of the group does. The road hunter types? Well, I guess you could road hunt with a muzzleloader... wouldn't be too hard really, even in their current state. You'd certainly keep your powder and cap dry!

[huntnphool]

 This is a really informative debate, I'm loving all the comments.

 I've hunted with a muzzy once, although I've applied for years without a successful draw. Only time I've drawn was a coveted tag in Idaho, and had a blast.....no pun intended.

 I see both sides of the debate, keep the points on both sides coming guys.

[PolarBear]

Hell no

[Fl0und3rz]

I also think its incredibly ridiculous to think that the modern hunters are going to come running over to muzzy once 209 primers are allowed.

I would give it a go on a TC encore platform, if 209 primers were legal, because it is an economical platform to try, but I also prefer hunting by myself.


I suspect some resistance to the 209 primers from the primative objectors is that they would prefer to limit the hunters afield during their time. 

Nobody likes a pumpkin patch.

[trophyhunt]

Big no here. What would be primitive about it if you take away exposed to the elements. Might as well be able to use a crossbow during archery seasons. 

I'd rather shoot a compound than my dads crossbow to be honest, its not consistent at all and pulling that string back is no joke.  Plus if you get your finger or thumb in the way of that string at all, it's gone. 

[floatinghat]

I voted no, I would be open to a primative season, caplock or flintlock (exposed) no sabot.   Ball or full lead conical etc.  I guess I have never had an issue with making sure thinks are right and tight.  I've had successful ignition after3-4 days of Western WA down pours.  I believe add to the success and the opportunity will be reduced.

[C-Money]

Pennsylvania still makes hunters use flint most of the time and they have always  stacked up the deer like cord wood. I say probably not on the 209s, takes away from the challenge of a muzzleloader hunt. A Good musket cap is plenty for ignition.

[JimmyHoffa]

Maybe WDFW could make a few test GMUs that allow 209.  Pick units scattered around the state and evaluate later whether pressure and harvest picked up.  Could even dial back the tech allowed for a few others and do the same.

[boneaddict]

I voted no.  It gets to a point where it's modern.

[JDHasty]

Definitely NO. You get better seasons than modern rifle because the odds are less that you will kill something while being provided a less crowded field at a better time. If you continue the process of improving the weapon then you deserve less time in the field and at a time when it is harder to hunt. For example the muzzie season for elk is right on the edge of the elk rut. Years ago they took this favorable time for hunting away from the bow hunters who obviously were using a weapon that provides much less of an opportunity for a kill than a muzzleloader. Suck it up and enjoy what you have already been given.

That is where I came down on this

[dominknows]

How about some more early season oppurtunity ie, one more day or more gmu's opened.

[CP]

Bump stocks on muzzies should be banned.

[fishsticks]

I voted yes, improved ignition potential would be a good thing.  Keep the rest of the limitations.  In my opinion open ignition and iron sights keeps it primitive enough.  I don't think 209 primers will impact participation or success rates enough to matter.  For me personally I enjoy muzzleloaders and will continue either way.