Floorless in Western WA?

[froyoandpho]

How do people feel about floorless shelters in the rain? I'm thinking about the Kifaru Supertarp or the Trailstar by Mountain Laurel Designs.

[Cylvertip]

My note below was aimed at a response on this thread from someone calling out ticks on the Wet side as a reason not to go floorless.  It looks like that post has been deleted now.  I will leave mine I guess.

Warning, total thread jack here, my apologies  

   Still don't get the tick thing.   

     I have never had one on me in 39 years of living in Western Wa.  I have spent a ton of time in the woods in Thurston County for 19 years and Snohomish County the last 20.  I archery hunted elk and deer in Lewis, Skamania, and Cowlitz couties for close to ten years.  Clallam, Jefferson, and Gr.ays Harbor Couties for the last 11.  Have hunted from areas along to Pacific Crest Trail and the Pacific and have trapped on the edge of Puget Sound during the Spring.  I have nuisance trapped for beaver year round for the last 18 years in a couple dozen different drainages between King and Skagit Counties.Never have had any issue or even seen one on me. 

Back to the original subject of the thread - if you pick the right location, I think you would be fine. A few drainage trenches around the perimeter may be a good idea though.

[Magnum_Willys]

Gotta have floor in sleep area.  So half floor is option.  3/4 floor better.

[Stein]

I'm not a fan of floorless shelters at all, whether in western WA or elsewhere.  Single wall floorless shelters are an ancient technology that in my mind has been improved so much as to be obsolete.

There are fans for sure, particularly with certain brands and certain brand ambassadors.

For me, I'll take a solid double wall tent for any fall through winter conditions.

[trophyhunt]

Gotta have floor in sleep area.  So half floor is option.  3/4 floor better.

[trophyhunt]

Warning, total thread jack here, my apologies

   Still don't get the tick thing.   

     I have never had one on me in 39 years of living in Western Wa.  I have spent a ton of time in the woods in Thurston County for 19 years and Snohomish County the last 20.  I archery hunted elk and deer in Lewis, Skamania, and Cowlitz couties for close to ten years.  Clallam, Jefferson, and Gr.ays Harbor Couties for the last 11.  Have hunted from areas along to Pacific Crest Trail and the Pacific and have trapped on the edge of Puget Sound during the Spring.  I have nuisance trapped for beaver year round for the last 18 years in a couple dozen different drainages between King and Skagit Counties.Never have had any issue or even seen one on me. 

Back to the original subject of the thread - if you pick the right location, I think you would be fine. A few drainage trenches around the perimeter may be a good idea though.

Try the blue mountains in spring time, you'll find ticks.

[pianoman9701]

Use a floored tent.

[jackelope]

I moved this to the backcountry hunting board as I think it's more fitting. I assume the OP is asking for opinions with the intent of backpack hunting.

I think floorless has it's place in terms of weight savings. I'm personally not a fan. I've woke up with a mouse on my chest while I was sleeping for example. 
I'm a fan of a free standing tent with a floor. In my current situation...mountain goat hunting in the Cascades in October...the idea of a stove sounds nice...but I think I would get a half sized nest with a bathtub floor in my SL5 if I was to add a stove jack.

[boneaddict]

Ants, mice, other bug relief versus weight.         I “tarp” most of the time.  It’s not cozy.   Additional protection in wind and rain is kinda nice

[pd]

Yes, flourless teepee with a wood stove in the driving rain.  Sometimes you will get a river through your tent, those are the breaks.  I will take a flourless + wood stove over a dank tent any day of the week.  Besides, I can backpack my teepee deep into the woods, much lighter than a conventional (floored) tent, even with the stove.

[Houndhunter]

I personally like floorless for most backpacking situations, but it is nice to have a fully enclosed tent if bugs are out. I've got to spend a fair amount of time in a Hilleberg, what I like about those is it gives you the option to have both a fully enclosed tent or unclip the guts and just use the fly. I've been in some pretty bad weather and rain/snow wouldn't keep me from going floorless. Mosquitoes would though 

[jackelope]

Yes, flourless teepee with a wood stove in the driving rain.  Sometimes you will get a river through your tent, those are the breaks.  I will take a flourless + wood stove over a dank tent any day of the week.  Besides, I can backpack my teepee deep into the woods, much lighter than a conventional (floored) tent, even with the stove.

I'm not sure about your weight claim. I have a free standing "conventional" tent that has plenty of room to sleep 2 people that weighs less than 5 pounds and it's a relatively low budget tent. Drop down a little in size and up in quality and it's relatively easy to get below 3 pounds all up. I also have a good quality teepee that is well over 5# with the nest and 3+ pounds nest free.

Biggest benefit to me of a conventional/free standing tent over a teepee style is the free standing part.  Unless you know exactly where you're going to set your tent up and know that you can stake it out and all that, you run the risk of not finding a suitable place to set it up.
I'd be curious to know how the teepee style would have stood up to the 3" of concrete-like snow I had on my tent last weekend that weighed about 300 pounds.

[Alpine Mojo]

I can backpack my teepee deep into the woods, much lighter than a conventional (floored) tent, even with the stove.

What weight are you looking at with your teepee and stove together?

[jackelope]

I can backpack my teepee deep into the woods, much lighter than a conventional (floored) tent, even with the stove.

What weight are you looking at with your teepee and stove together?

I was always under the impression that with a lightweight quality tarp/teepee, a stove and stove pipe you'd be right around 5-6 pounds with the best quality stuff.

[The scout]

I have stayed in a floorless tent quite a few nights over different trips and weather conditions, I don't like it, the only thing to like is the wood stove heat that can come with it. your gear gets filthy with mud if its wet outside, you need to worry about critter's getting in, there is always a draft, I could go on and on about bad things but some people like them so maybe try one and see of its for you

[pd]

I can backpack my teepee deep into the woods, much lighter than a conventional (floored) tent, even with the stove.

What weight are you looking at with your teepee and stove together?

I was always under the impression that with a lightweight quality tarp/teepee, a stove and stove pipe you'd be right around 5-6 pounds with the best quality stuff.

With the very best equipment, that is about right.  My teepee is actually a bit heavier than that (I am cheap, and did not purchase the best, but it is good enough for me).

I also climb (alpine) and carry a very lightweight tent for that, so I am well aware of the benefits of the floored tent option.  I also understand the heavier, floored tent for truck camping (very convenient, I will agree).  But for wet & cold backpack hunting, I don't think I will ever go again without a teepee.

I do understand the complaint about vermin in the warmer months.  We have that same problem while climbing---to prevent rodent damage during our day climbs, I just leave the doors open.

Teepees are built at sharp angles, so perhaps they are stronger against concrete snow, if staked properly.  My only weather experience has been driving Pacific rainstorms, and I was fine.

The stove actually dries the ground quite well, so mud in the floor-less tent is not really a concern.

To each his own.  Use the equipment best suited for the need.

[Wetwoodshunter]

I called Aron Snyder last year and was askikng him about this. He works at Kifaru and spent a lot of time in the west side of Oregon. He recommended a Hilleberg for wetter weather, he also said if you go with a tipi in the rainforest you need a liner or your going to get wet from condensation.

I'm still using a MSR hubba hubba works great but you can't stand up. I'll probably buy a new tent someday when this one fails.

Call Kifaru, they won't talk you into the wrong product.

[dreamingbig]

I have had chipmunks chew into 2 different tents the last two years.  I am bringing a rat trap next year. Darn rodents.

One was freestanding tent while the other was floorless with a nest.


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[Magnum_Willys]

I can backpack my teepee deep into the woods, much lighter than a conventional (floored) tent, even with the stove.

What weight are you looking at with your teepee and stove together?

I was always under the impression that with a lightweight quality tarp/teepee, a stove and stove pipe you'd be right around 5-6 pounds with the best quality stuff.

Thats for smallest size without liner, pole, floor.

My seek outside XL stove complete with pipe is 4#, my 8 man seek tipi is 4.5# with carbon fiber pole.  But liner and half floor adds another 1.5# so it gets up there at 11# for combo.  Wouldn't need liner & floor for nice weather but rain/snow its needed as your wet gear will rain the inside until stove drys it out.  Have to have liner in the wet - really full liner needed if bringing in wet gear.

[Shawn Ryan]

I'd be curious to know how the teepee style would have stood up to the 3" of concrete-like snow I had on my tent last weekend that weighed about 300 pounds.

Jackelope, I just returned from the GRW and suffered the concrete snow on my SL4.  The SL4 is not as good with snow as some of the taller, steeper teepee's, but it handled it.  The interior space gets smaller as the sides cave-in a bit and the sil-nylon always sags a bit when real cold.  It was incredibly wet in the brush and the stove couldn't dry all my clothes in the 1.5 hour or so that I run it at night.

I was not in an area to see goats, but thought about your hunt. Hope you connect.

[Shawn Ryan]

I've used a floorless backpack tent and stove for 9 years. (Mostly not in W. WA.)  I've used floorless wall tents and hillbilly camp (pop-up and tarp) for 20+ years in W. WA. This is the first time I've had significant mouse issues.  Not a mouse here and there:  multiple mice at any given time in all my gear and food.  Running across our heads while sleeping, climbing the center pole, chewed into the food bag, nested in my parka at night, etc.  They sat and ate a foot from my head while I trained my headlamp on them and talked to them--not scared at all. 

It was well below freezing with several inches of snow.

Solutions? I'll be bringing a tin for the food (like what Christmas cookies come in) and d-Con for them to eat.  Or a cat!

Is this year different than other years? Where are the predators for such a large prey base?  Is this the new normal for W. WA?  Never was normal when I was floorless in W.WA previously.

[pd]

@ShawnRyan: The cat option is the best. Then just leave it there!

[Skyvalhunter]

I see Kuiu is coming out with a new tent with a stove jack option. Summit Refuge 3P

[D-Rock425]

I have a kifaru sawtooth and couldn't be happier.  Just be smart about where and how you set it up,and you won't have a problem.  Had mine is some nasty rain and only an inch or two a round the edges get wet.

[CaNINE]

If rodents bother you bring a few traps.  I put my new teepee to work a few weekends ago.  My buddy woke up in the night to a pack rat trying pull the beanie off his head.  There was also a nice pile of shredded paper the little trouble maker tore up our game regulations in the night.  I plan to camp in the same spot in a few weeks and have some traps ready for him this time.

[Skyvalhunter]

I have noticed in years passed when hiking there were times walking down the trail when a person would see mice jumping across the trail in front of you. This is probably one of those years as it is my experience it's cyclic.

[ian_padron]

I'm not a fan of floorless shelters at all, whether in western WA or elsewhere.  Single wall floorless shelters are an ancient technology that in my mind has been improved so much as to be obsolete.

There are fans for sure, particularly with certain brands and certain brand ambassadors.

For me, I'll take a solid double wall tent for any fall through winter conditions.

Have you actually used a high quality single wall floorless shelter?

The fact that you can run a stove in a shelter makes floorless the most attractive option for late season hunting. Drying out your gear is crucial. Can't do that in a double wall.

Not to mention that a decent double wall tent weighs 2 to 3 times a similar sized floorless.

You couldn't pay me to run a double walled shelter.



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[CLARKTAR]

I'm not a fan of floorless shelters at all, whether in western WA or elsewhere.  Single wall floorless shelters are an ancient technology that in my mind has been improved so much as to be obsolete.

There are fans for sure, particularly with certain brands and certain brand ambassadors.

For me, I'll take a solid double wall tent for any fall through winter conditions.

Have you actually used a high quality single wall floorless shelter?

The fact that you can run a stove in a shelter makes floorless the most attractive option for late season hunting. Drying out your gear is crucial. Can't do that in a double wall.

Not to mention that a decent double wall tent weighs 2 to 3 times a similar sized floorless.

You couldn't pay me to run a double walled shelter.



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Ditto!

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[DWP]

August/September hunting leaves me with options...  Do I use my Cimarron? Do I use my Cimarron with the stove?
Do I use my BA Copper Spur 1?        Or do I use my DST tarp?       

Later in the year the list of suitable options gets smaller for me...Most likely using the Cimarron with the stove as the weather gets colder & more wet.

I prefer floorless with a stove as the weather gets colder and more wet for lots of reasons... Dry out gear, get myself warm, keep my boots on going in & out of shelter, etc....

All equipment decisions are a tradeoff. Be open minded, try out various options, and find out what works for you.
 

[fillthefreezer]

I'm not a fan of floorless shelters at all, whether in western WA or elsewhere.  Single wall floorless shelters are an ancient technology that in my mind has been improved so much as to be obsolete.

There are fans for sure, particularly with certain brands and certain brand ambassadors.

For me, I'll take a solid double wall tent for any fall through winter conditions.

Have you actually used a high quality single wall floorless shelter?

The fact that you can run a stove in a shelter makes floorless the most attractive option for late season hunting. Drying out your gear is crucial. Can't do that in a double wall.

Not to mention that a decent double wall tent weighs 2 to 3 times a similar sized floorless.

You couldn't pay me to run a double walled shelter.



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i have spent many nights in a single wall floorless, and you could pay me, but it would have to be substantial to go back to one. everything about double wall free standing is so much easier and versatile. the stove fad is completely lost on me. wait til that thing is completely soaked on the inside and every gust of wind sends rain all over your gear inside

[GBoyd]

I prefer the single wall in all weather conditions.

The factor that does it for me is the size of the tent. I use a homemade pyramid tent that's 10x10 and weighs 1.8 pounds with a SOL emergency blanket as a ground cloth. For that weight, any double wall tents that I know about would have to be tiny. There might be less condensation in wet weather, but you also have to be rubbing against the walls all the time.

Also, I can stand up to put on my pants.

[froyoandpho]

It was good to hear everyone's thoughts. I ultimately decided to go with a Kifaru supertarp with the annex vestibule, in case anyone was wondering, and will run it with a ground cloth. Hopefully a low pitch will keep out any weather. Thanks everyone!

[swisski]

Floorless all day, and that's with a lot of Western Washington use. It's nice to be able to just walk into your tent and worry about getting a floor all dirty before removing your boots.

A lot of these issues listed, aside from possible rodents is just site selection. If it's real wet, say out on the Peninsula, a half liner was absolutely necessary even with the stove I was running.

I have nothing against a full tent, I've just grown real comfortable with the flourless setups.

[Stickerbush]

I have never run floorless but am eager to try it with the stove for cold weather stuff

[Magnum_Willys]

Nothing like sippin a whiskey and drying your gear over the stove while rain whips down all night around you - priceless.  Dry weather the teepee / stove may be more weight than its worth. 

[Calvin Rayborn]

Mud between the toes. OH YEAH