Killing Coyotes

[drysideshooter]

I wanted to start a thread about killing coyotes, and doing it ethically.  Just to be really clear, I really enjoy coyote hunting.  I am on the water fishing, or hunting, a minimum of 5 days most weeks, and some season's it's 7 days a week for a while.  I live on acreage where I can shoot coyotes, and I have access to thousands of acres of private land.  I've killed more than 30 coyotes in the last year.  I have ZERO negative feelings about killing coyotes and believe there is a benefit to other species by doing so.  I do however believe they deserve the same respect as any animal when it comes to fast, ethical kills.  The fact they prey on other animals doesn't make a difference, that's nature.  It doesn't mean they don't deserve to be dispatched quickly.  I travel a fair amount to shoot various ground squirrels.  I endeavor to kill them quickly as well, and don't believe because they're small they suffer any less than a larger animal.  I don't think it's fair to quantify suffering by the beauty of the animal, the size of the animal, or if the animal is a predator or not. 

My typical coyote rifles are 22-250 and 223, though I have also killed quite a few with 308 and 30-06, and even a 340 Weatherby Mag.  I read in another thread that someone said if they even "nick" a coyote with their 180 grain bullet it dies.  That's plain stupidity.  There isn't enough energy transferred by a "nick" to kill a coyote.  I've shot a fair number with an 06 shooting 168 grain Barnes TTSX.  With a solid hit they die pretty much instantly, and a projectile with more energy can kill or incapacitate better than a lower energy rounds if it's a marginal hit.  With a bad hit they can also cause plenty of suffering and a slow death. 

I was raised to respect my quarry, and to make sure my skills and judgment are good enough to assure quick kills the majority of the time.  I'm somewhat saddened and disgusted by some of the attitudes displayed here in the forums.

[ThomMedic]

Thank you

[Gringo31]

I've never read something on this forum where guys were trying to wound, nick or not kill a coyote ethically. 


Don't think I have anyway....   

[Gringo31]

I saw the other thread.  (now)

Not sure this is really a debate but yes, I do treat them a little differently.  I'll shoot at a running coyote and risk a poor hit where I wouldn't take that shot on a deer or elk.  I've lost deer before and it sucks real bad.  Fact is, speaking for myself, I don't have those same feelings for coyotes, pigeons, starlings, mice etc. 

[Doublelunger]

I saw the other thread.  (now)

Not sure this is really a debate but yes, I do treat them a little differently.  I'll shoot at a running coyote and risk a poor hit where I wouldn't take that shot on a deer or elk.  I've lost deer before and it sucks real bad.  Fact is, speaking for myself, I don't have those same feelings for coyotes, pigeons, starlings, mice etc. 

  I don't try to make a habit out of wounding any animal even coyotes, but I'll take lower probablilty shots on coyotes than I would on big game and not lose as much sleep if I don't find them.

[drysideshooter]

Sorry, went fishing and chukar hunting in the Hells Canyon area and was gone for a couple of days.

Some of the posts in the other thread have been removed. 

I'm curious as to why some look at wounding a coyote and it getting away differently than wounding something like a deer?  Is it because with the deer they also don't get the meat, or is it because a deer is a beautiful, gentle herbivore and the coyote is a canine predator?  In my mind, and maybe I'm in the minority, to cause any animal to suffer needlessly because I took a shot I probably shouldn't have is a bad thing.  I grew up and spent 33 years of my life in Alaska.  I've shot a lot of predators.  I've also shot moose and caribou.  To my way of thinking they all deserve quick, ethical kills. The fact that predators hunt, and kill other animals doesn't come into the equation.  It's nature, and it's how they survive.  Sure, a wolf or cougar taking down an Elk may look horrific to some, and the elk no doubt experiences a period of severe pain.  It's how predators survive, and I don't feel that it's a hunters place to somehow judge them and deem them worthy of any less respect than any other quarry. 

I've noticed for years with many folks there seems to be a direct correlation between the size of an animal and the perceived value of their life and suffering.  I think that's interesting, and I'm not sure I completely understand it.

[Gringo31]

I'm curious as to why some look at wounding a coyote and it getting away differently than wounding something like a deer?

Because as you can see from the pics I just posted, for me it's personal.  I have livestock to protect, I value our natural resources, I have a kill em all attitude.  Winter time forces all living things in my neck of the woods into these smaller critical habitat areas....it is the choke point in my areas carrying capacity.  You'll find the deer, coyotes, pheasants, quail etc. all stacked up in these areas looking to survive.  If I can put a pounding on the coyotes in the winter, more animals (that I value) survive. 

I don't look at all animals the same.  Just don't.  I believe in conservation not preservation.  If in my quest to remove the predatory burden, I wound one.....that's the way it goes.  Ol' Mr. Yote doesn't exactly have feelings.  When he chases deer across the ice or whatever he does to survive.....he does it ruthlessly.  I don't blame him, just accept him for what he is, a tax on my natural resource profits.  I like to limit taxes 

[pianoman9701]

I saw the other thread.  (now)

Not sure this is really a debate but yes, I do treat them a little differently.  I'll shoot at a running coyote and risk a poor hit where I wouldn't take that shot on a deer or elk.  I've lost deer before and it sucks real bad.  Fact is, speaking for myself, I don't have those same feelings for coyotes, pigeons, starlings, mice etc. 

  Too many predators in WA. I'll take a risky shot on a coyote I wouldn't otherwise risk.

[Gringo31]

I've noticed for years with many folks there seems to be a direct correlation between the size of an animal and the perceived value of their life and suffering.  I think that's interesting, and I'm not sure I completely understand it.

Just for discussion's sake.  I would venture to guess you don't go to the bug zapper and inspect that some of the flies don't just have a burnt wing, alive but unable to survive.  I'd guess you've used decon for mice, sticky traps or even fly strips. 

Don't mistake my statement to assume that I intend to wound or cause suffering.  That's not the case AT ALL.  I probably shoot around 35-70 coyotes a winter.  I've killed 4 this week.  I've learned to aim on the shoulder vs. behind so they never take a step.  But like I said, speaking for me, I feel terrible if I loose a duck or even a dove.  If I lose a coyote?  Yeah, well......it happens and it doesn't bother me.  He's either not long for the world (my intent anyway) or I'll get him next time.

[jjaba]

Please keep photos in good taste.  Thank you.

[drysideshooter]

One of my best friends is a cattleman, he has thousands of head of cattle in several states.  He has seen coyotes eating half born calves while the cow is of course freaking out. He has lost animals to cougar.  He tries to eradicate all of the predators he can because it's also his livelihood that is affected.  He know that predators do what they do to survive.  Cattle graze, predators hunt.  He still believes, strongly, that the predators he kills deserve to die quickly.  He won't pass up an opportunity to kill one, but I know for a fact that when he wounds one he dispatches it quickly if he can, or tries to locate it.  Honestly, if he felt any other way we obviously wouldn't be friends. I'm still really surprised at the attitudes of so many folks.  Just because an animal doing what they do naturally effects you doesn't mean it's okay if they suffer. Not in my mind anyway. I know nobody is advocating torturing animals like coyotes, but some of the attitudes about it being okay if they're caused do suffer is a bit shocking.

[YoungFowler]

Nobody said that predators should suffer,  (im fairly certain most people would rather a quick kill) they just said that they wouldn't feel the same as if it was a deer or something.


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[Blacktail Sniper]

Potential problem I see concerning the really greusome pictures, and, to be honest, potentially any pictues I am sad to say, is that all these posts and pictures are searchable by anyone. 

Thinking back to the campaign to ban hounds and baiting, I would think it fair to say that none of those hunters who posted videos on youtube ever thought those videos would ever be used against them to help take hound hunting and baiting away.

We all have seen examples of how the anti's know they can't win an outright victory, so they settle for piecemeal victories, example bobcat trapping in California a couple years ago.

I am not saying never post anything, but maybe a little forethought in choice of images or words used, because there is always a chance they will come back in a negative way... just my 

Some will agree, some will no doubt say I am being too sensitive, we all know the saying about opinions...but doesn't change the effectivness those youtube videos had on voters.

[pianoman9701]

One of my best friends is a cattleman, he has thousands of head of cattle in several states.  He has seen coyotes eating half born calves while the cow is of course freaking out. He has lost animals to cougar.  He tries to eradicate all of the predators he can because it's also his livelihood that is affected.  He know that predators do what they do to survive.  Cattle graze, predators hunt.  He still believes, strongly, that the predators he kills deserve to die quickly.  He won't pass up an opportunity to kill one, but I know for a fact that when he wounds one he dispatches it quickly if he can, or tries to locate it.  Honestly, if he felt any other way we obviously wouldn't be friends. I'm still really surprised at the attitudes of so many folks.  Just because an animal doing what they do naturally effects you doesn't mean it's okay if they suffer. Not in my mind anyway. I know nobody is advocating torturing animals like coyotes, but some of the attitudes about it being okay if they're caused do suffer is a bit shocking.

We're not saying anything different from your cattleman friend. I'm not going to stand there and watch as they flop around and no one else is saying that either. None of us have said they'd like to see or would allow them to suffer. Not sure where you think you're going with this. 

[drysideshooter]

One of my best friends is a cattleman, he has thousands of head of cattle in several states.  He has seen coyotes eating half born calves while the cow is of course freaking out. He has lost animals to cougar.  He tries to eradicate all of the predators he can because it's also his livelihood that is affected.  He know that predators do what they do to survive.  Cattle graze, predators hunt.  He still believes, strongly, that the predators he kills deserve to die quickly.  He won't pass up an opportunity to kill one, but I know for a fact that when he wounds one he dispatches it quickly if he can, or tries to locate it.  Honestly, if he felt any other way we obviously wouldn't be friends. I'm still really surprised at the attitudes of so many folks.  Just because an animal doing what they do naturally effects you doesn't mean it's okay if they suffer. Not in my mind anyway. I know nobody is advocating torturing animals like coyotes, but some of the attitudes about it being okay if they're caused do suffer is a bit shocking.

We're not saying anything different from your cattleman friend. I'm not going to stand there and watch as they flop around and no one else is saying that either. None of us have said they'd like to see or would allow them to suffer. Not sure where you think you're going with this. 

Not really going anywhere.  Folks have said they will take a more questionable shot on a coyote than a deer or elk or other animal they have personally different feelings about.  Not saying it's right or wrong, just interesting how most of us obviously place different values on different forms of life. I'm wondering how many others of them have heard a man, especially a friend, die?  Have they ever held someone as they take their last breath, and long enough for their muscles to relax as their bowels and bladder empty? Have they heard the screams, even of an enemy, after they've been shot?  I can promise that certain life experiences can change the way folks feel about any type of suffering, and everyone has had a different journey to get to where they are, and have differing reasons for why they feel the way they do.