Major wdfw overhaul

[pianoman9701]

Just so you guys know, WDFW is not allowed by law to comment on any initiatives in this state. It isn't that they didn't want to they couldn't.

I don't know if that's true. I know they can't take a side on an issue but that doesn't mean they can't release facts that are pertinent.  Bigtex?

[Special T]

I don't blame WDFW for lack of deer, I think they could have helped the Elk a whole lot more in some areas though. 




The anti trapping and hound initiative killed our herds more than anything.

They remained silent when they could've presented facts regarding the repercussions of eliminating hounds and bait. They could also have addressed the misconceptions planted by the animal rights freaks when they aired completely incorrect and inflammatory videos and "information" about hounding and baiting. This has affected our deer and elk herds considerably. It wouldn't have required them to take a stance on the initiative. Accurate information would probably have been enough. They stayed silent.

Yes this^
Because they didn't at least set the record straight providing the facts of the issue shows thier bias. The apologists like to claim they couldn't, but the fact is they just didn't want to.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[runamuk]

Actually in some cases if they released some information or opinions it can be construed as taking a side which falls into illegal lobbying type behavior.

We the people if the state of Washington have very thoroughly tied the hands and gagged the mouths of the very people hired to supposedly work for us. 

The information gets published but it's on you the individual to acquire it. I used to be able to find a lot of it with ease, now it's been made more difficult and can cost you printing fees.

[Blacktail Sniper]

Actually in some cases if they released some information or opinions it can be construed as taking a side which falls into illegal lobbying type behavior.

We the people if the state of Washington have very thoroughly tied the hands and gagged the mouths of the very people hired to supposedly work for us. 

The information gets published but it's on you the individual to acquire it. I used to be able to find a lot of it with ease, now it's been made more difficult and can cost you printing fees.

 


How could they offer a "fact" or opinion that didn't support or contradict one side or the other? 

It is a "Damned if they do, damned if they don't" situtation for them. 

Honestly, the fact is, the anti's got it together, used public available resources (youtube), spent the time, energy and money to put an emoitional spin on the subject that got to and struck a cord with those many, many, middle of the road non-hunting voters, and some hunters as well, and won.

Won't be the last time you see this type material...one small piece at a time, guns, hunting, fishing, then it will just be gone.

[bigtex]

Just so you guys know, WDFW is not allowed by law to comment on any initiatives in this state. It isn't that they didn't want to they couldn't.

I don't know if that's true. I know they can't take a side on an issue but that doesn't mean they can't release facts that are pertinent.  Bigtex?

Opinions no, facts yes.

That being said, an agency can't post an informational ad relating to an initiative. Someone would have to get the facts from the agency then fund the add saying "according to XYZ agency..."

[bearpaw]

I have a different opinion than some of you regarding our ungulate herds. The herds naturally cycle up and down depending on weather and other natural events. Deer herds were slowly rebounding from previous declines until blue tongue hit the whitetails in the NE and the harsh winter hit the mule deer and whitetail all over the eastside. Weather and disease as usual caused the biggest fluctuations in our deer herds. However, more proactive management by WDFW regarding reduction of human harvest and increased predator control could bring about a much swifter and fuller recovery of deer herds. Some states manage that way, they reduce human opportunity and increase predator hunting to rebound herds, other states not so much. Washington is a not so much state, they seem to focus on keeping the revenue stream steady and figure herds will eventually rebound to some extent without taking any significant measures.   

The most liberal wolf plan in the west is the direct making of the WDFW Dept and Commission, this nightmare of a plan is fully on their shoulders. From my observations in the NE (where the most wolves exist) the wolf plan is impacting our moose and caribou more than deer and elk at this point!   I fully understand other factors are impacting moose and caribou too, but wolf predation doubles the impacts on these species and reduces the potential for those herds to rebound. 

[Skyvalhunter]

Well I doubt Wa has ever seen a down ward turn in game animals as this. At least I have never witnessed it in my lifetime.

[bearpaw]

Unhappy with the location or timing of meetings? Here is a thought.
F&W Commission meetings always extend into Saturday. They have open comment periods. You can comment on anything you wish. Does not have to be related to any of the other business of the Commission that day although it helps.
Make your case for meetings more friendly to the average guy. You'll have 3 minutes so don't go off on a tangent.
Can't attend? You can send in a written response as long as you want. Warning though, you better have some well thought out reasoning and short and concise will be read.
I doubt if one commenter or letter will make a difference but if they heard the same thing from a bunch of people I bet they will listen.

And many of those open comment periods have literally zero comments given.

For the written response, your correct, it better make sense. (No spelling/grammar issues or other falsehoods).

The numerous times I've worked in Oly one of the biggest issues is people complaining about non-state level issues. So if you send a letter that has spelling/grammar issues or it talks about non-state issues it isn't going to go anywhere. As an example, if you want to complain about waterfowl seasons for example, most likely it'll be a federal issue. Want to complain about a gate on USFS land, don't contact WDFW or DNR contact USFS. Etc.

I'll  just add this. We really need to get hound hunting back to control cougar but do you think it is really going to do much good to complain to the F&W Commission about that? It is out of their hands. Take that to the Legislature.
Now if you want to complain about the ban on using dogs on coyotes that is prime real estate to  talk to the Commission.
Anything to do with I-655 or I-713 is fodder for the Legislature. F&W Commissions hands are tied on these issues.

You are spot on regarding the fact that the legislature must be used to get hound hunting or trapping back. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. You also understand the process and I know you have had some successes and have offered what I would say is the best advice for trying to work with the Dept and/or the Commission. However, that does not lessen the fact that both the Commission and the Dept are almost anti-cougar hunting for the most part. They have reduced the cougar quota for boot hunters so severely at a time when we have the most robust cougar populations in modern times and possible ever in history. I will not give them a pass on the fact that they are contributing to the problem with their lack of managing cougars and wolves by boot hunting seasons which are perfectly legal for cougar statewide and for wolves in the eastern 1/3 of Washington. There are steps they could take to increase harvest on other predators as well, if they wanted to!

[bearpaw]

Well I doubt Wa has ever seen a down ward turn in game animals as this. At least I have never witnessed it in my lifetime.

I have seen lower whitetail numbers in the past in the NE and they slowly rebounded, but our mule deer have been on a 50 year decline, hunting seasons were too liberal for years and now NE mule deer are for the most part in a predator pit, I don't think their numbers will ever rebound due to all the predators eating them as fast as their small numbers can reproduce. Most of our mule deer population isn't even hunted, only bucks 3 point or better can be hunted, however there is native hunting in some areas and predators are taking a heavy toll every year everywhere, our mule deer numbers seem to be in inevitable decline in the NE.

I don't know enough about other parts of WA enough to comment intelligently, I'll leave that up to others.

[hunter399]

Whitetail ,and mule deer herds are way down in northeast wa.Way to many bears,cougars,coyotes,im not gonna comment on wolves that's a bag of bs.The hunting pressure in the late season was the worst I have ever seen this year.A lot of deer went nocturnal even does on public land.Basicly predeters need to be managed better along with the quality of hunts. The 4pt min for whitetail and mule deer needs to come back,with better management of bears,cougars,coyotes , and norteast wa, Could be a great corner of the state to hunt,with a lot better quality of hunts.Rant over just my 

[pianoman9701]

Unhappy with the location or timing of meetings? Here is a thought.
F&W Commission meetings always extend into Saturday. They have open comment periods. You can comment on anything you wish. Does not have to be related to any of the other business of the Commission that day although it helps.
Make your case for meetings more friendly to the average guy. You'll have 3 minutes so don't go off on a tangent.
Can't attend? You can send in a written response as long as you want. Warning though, you better have some well thought out reasoning and short and concise will be read.
I doubt if one commenter or letter will make a difference but if they heard the same thing from a bunch of people I bet they will listen.

And many of those open comment periods have literally zero comments given.

For the written response, your correct, it better make sense. (No spelling/grammar issues or other falsehoods).

The numerous times I've worked in Oly one of the biggest issues is people complaining about non-state level issues. So if you send a letter that has spelling/grammar issues or it talks about non-state issues it isn't going to go anywhere. As an example, if you want to complain about waterfowl seasons for example, most likely it'll be a federal issue. Want to complain about a gate on USFS land, don't contact WDFW or DNR contact USFS. Etc.

I'll  just add this. We really need to get hound hunting back to control cougar but do you think it is really going to do much good to complain to the F&W Commission about that? It is out of their hands. Take that to the Legislature.
Now if you want to complain about the ban on using dogs on coyotes that is prime real estate to  talk to the Commission.
Anything to do with I-655 or I-713 is fodder for the Legislature. F&W Commissions hands are tied on these issues.

You are spot on regarding the fact that the legislature must be used to get hound hunting or trapping back. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. You also understand the process and I know you have had some successes and have offered what I would say is the best advice for trying to work with the Dept and/or the Commission. However, that does not lessen the fact that both the Commission and the Dept are almost anti-cougar hunting for the most part. They have reduced the cougar quota for boot hunters so severely at a time when we have the most robust cougar populations in modern times and possible ever in history. I will not give them a pass on the fact that they are contributing to the problem with their lack of managing cougars and wolves by boot hunting seasons which are perfectly legal for cougar statewide and for wolves in the eastern 1/3 of Washington. There are steps they could take to increase harvest on other predators as well, if they wanted to!

Bait and Hound hunting is gone in WA and will never come back. We will lose elk and deer baiting within the next 5 years, as well. As soon as HSUS is done in AZ, they'll be heading up here.

[wolfbait]

Doesn't matter P-MAn there won't be much left to bait.

Look back at the ID, MT and Wyoming timeline of wolf predation, hell we are way past them with 16 years of No wolf control, and counting. Unless there isn't some sort of wolf control soon it's going to be all over but the blame game.

Which I'm sure WDF&wolves have answers for by now.

[wolfbait]

Well I doubt Wa has ever seen a down ward turn in game animals as this. At least I have never witnessed it in my lifetime.

I have seen lower whitetail numbers in the past in the NE and they slowly rebounded, but our mule deer have been on a 50 year decline, hunting seasons were too liberal for years and now NE mule deer are for the most part in a predator pit, I don't think their numbers will ever rebound due to all the predators eating them as fast as their small numbers can reproduce. Most of our mule deer population isn't even hunted, only bucks 3 point or better can be hunted, however there is native hunting in some areas and predators are taking a heavy toll every year everywhere, our mule deer numbers seem to be in inevitable decline in the NE.

I don't know enough about other parts of WA enough to comment intelligently, I'll leave that up to others.

Remember WDFW refusal to confirm wolf predation in the Methow and other areas unless forced to do so, refuse to confirm wolf packs etc.. WDFW pick and choose where they confirm wolf packs, and the NE corner was their desired choice, maybe because it borders Idaho and Canada and would seem a likely place for wolves to cross into WA., WDFW also control the numbers, which most people by now realize is total BS. If the truth were to be told, WDFW probably released wolves all over WA, they were caught many times releasing wolves in the Okanogan and then pretended for years they weren't there, and my guess is they are still doing releases today.

Remembering info. from folks in ID, Mt and Wyoming who said watch your ungulates and you can see the wolf population> they said they could see the wolves eating their way through the state.

I also think the mule deer herds are in a predator pit, last year many of the older bucks were taken, and what is left is small bucks and few does. Soon there won’t be any deer left to migrate, what will be left will be deer that live in rural towns and communities. 


Biological Fantasy

In their eagerness to depict wolves as benefactors of elk, the producers of the Discovery Channel program “Wolf Battlefields” displayed their ignorance by showing footage depicting long chases of elk by wolves. The peripheral damage caused by coyotes and wolves to big game herds in winter if they are out-of-balance with their prey species cannot be ignored.

While Alaska’s biologists have finally admitted, in writing, that excessive ratios of wolves and bears are keeping moose herds in a predator pit over most of the state, many biologists in the “lower 48” continue to ignore poor juvenile deer and elk survival – the classic symptom of a predator pit.

When IDFG wildlife managers state that lack of habitat or severe winters are the major factors limiting elk and mule deer recovery, they are ignoring their own research which clearly shows that predators are responsible for more big game deaths than all other causes in the long term.

Alaska biologists admit that predators are responsible for 85 percent of all big game deaths while hunters kill only between two and seven percent of those that die. Yet Wolf biologist/activist Gordon Haber produced a computer model purporting to show that an increase from a 4 percent to a 6 percent kill by hunters would destroy Alaska’s big game herds.

Until IDFG officials produce site specific forage/carrying capacity inventories to substantiate their false claims, knowledgeable Idaho citizens must challenge every false claim and force them to “tell it like (sic) it is.”


http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%205%20July%202004%20Tell%20it%20like%20it%20is.pdf

Too bad there isn't any way to hold WDF&wolves accountable.




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[Odell]

I'd like to believe they released wolves but there is just no solid evidence. If we are so sure this happened, file a freedom of information claim and find the evidence

[Skyvalhunter]

I am kind of lean towards to believing that they didn't reintroduce the wolves into Wa. I believe that they did come in from Montana, Idaho and Canada(which would explain that subspecies). There has been a few wolves in the Cascades as long as I can remember. Never ran into packs but the lone one here and there. Regardless they still need to be controlled which will be a very difficult task without poisoning or aerial shooting.