Long Range Shooting Classes or Startup Instruction?

[JDHasty]

Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.

Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting.  Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone.  Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals.  Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience.  Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.

Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others.  And respected their limitations. 

I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun.  Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would. 

It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about. 

I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."

I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will.  And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.     

 

[mountainman]

I have taught classes several times. They were designed and formatted for the average hunter, bringing personal, hunting weight rifles, hunting powered scopes. 2 days classroom (for the "math" and to evaluate general skill and comprehension). Day 3 to the field. All were able to place first shot in a deer kill zone area at 600 yards by days end. Some progressed quickly, others took longer. All would agree, the "curve" was less then to research, read, research and read some more as opposed to 3 days of on-hand. Most reported back after hunting season ended..most shots were around 200 yards ☺

[mountainman]

Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.

Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting.  Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone.  Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals.  Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience.  Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.

Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others.  And respected their limitations. 

I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun.  Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would. 

It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about. 

I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."

I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will.  And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.     

 

Bob was a good man👍

[The scout]

Maybe mountanman kid will give you a lesson he is the best shot I have ever seen

[mountainman]

Maybe mountanman kid will give you a lesson he is the best shot I have ever seen

taught him everything he knows 👍lol!
Seriously, Jr. Is the best shot I know!

[JDHasty]

I have taught classes several times. They were designed and formatted for the average hunter, bringing personal, hunting weight rifles, hunting powered scopes. 2 days classroom (for the "math" and to evaluate general skill and comprehension). Day 3 to the field. All were able to place first shot in a deer kill zone area at 600 yards by days end. Some progressed quickly, others took longer. All would agree, the "curve" was less then to research, read, research and read some more as opposed to 3 days of on-hand. Most reported back after hunting season ended..most shots were around 200 yards ☺

I totally endorse the classes as a way to make the learning curve that I lived assume exponential form and get you up to proficiency in long range shooting a lot faster than I did.

Where I was going is that you have to put what you learned into practice in order for it to take hold.  You are going to be sharp at the end of the class, but then how do you make that experience a permanent part of your hunting going forward?

Also, how are you going to learn to drop on your butt or spot a solid resting position, get solid and on target and get a shot off IN THE FIELD? 

I used to help a guy that took candidates who were in the Patrol Academy and were having trouble qualifying with their side arm get qualified... and keep a job they had, or get a job, where someone will be trying to kill them some day. 

That is what I focused on when I said, over, and over, and over, and over:  I can get you to the point that you can qualify, but I hope that is not the goal you leave here with.  After qualifying you MUST stick with this routine until it becomes "routine."  And also expand on what I have taught you with your side arm so that you can put what you learned from me into practice under field conditions.

 And then a year later they were back.  And although I got paid handsomely the first time, and I was getting paid handsomely again... I felt like:  Gee, I don't know if this is something I want to be a part of.

These individuals had an ammunition allowance and paid range time, but lacked the something (interest) that would make it fun enough that they would make that aspect of a young LEO's career a priority.  They were focused on other things, usually the job they ultimately wanted.  But it is hard to perform in the ultimate position of your dreams if you are dead, and for a young LEO w/o field skills...  you do the math.  I was teaching them how to shoot under controlled conditions on a range.  Tey left very good at that, but... 

Perhaps I digress, but I did so to make a point.  To become one with a firearm IN THE FIELD you have to spend a LOT of time shooting it IN THE FIELD and to become proficient in the field at live game you have to spend a LOT of time in the field hunting and if you want to become one with your firearm in the field shooting game at long range... you do the math.  Big game seasons are short and few shots are taken and few animals are spotted if you are not a trophy hunter passing up a lot of lesser game.

Fortunately for a guy that wants to be a proficient long range hunter the desire is normally there,  where it gets dicey is in the commitment to become good enough at finding rockchuck colonies or prairie dog towns is not strong enough that they quit before they can depend on budgeting time to go on a shoot and expect to put their skills into practice. 

Where I am going with this is:  I totally endorse taking classes or of self teaching long range shooting.  I wholly and unreservedly endorse any hunter wanting to get better and extend their range in the field.  I agree that skill development, mathematics and range practice is valuable, but all of the foregoing needs to be put into practice in the field and it can be frustrating when you cannot find game that you can shoot hundreds of rounds at and I am going to help you and other varmint shooters are going to help you, but we are not going to take you to our shooting spots.  That is unless you meet a guy that has lost his varmint shooting partner and takes you under his wing.

I am not trying to throw a wet blanket on your aspirations, not at all.  But I am being a realist.  My Bridget gets a thorough schooling on how lucky she is to go varmint shooting... and not be spending the weekend looking for a place that has chucks to shoot.  Unless you are similarly blessed you are going to have to push through the frustration and keep at it until you develop the skill to locate colonies.  That means personal skills in talking to people as well as skill in knowing where to start looking.  And this practice in developing those skills also pays dividends in big game hunting.  So it is valuable too. 

   

     

[JDHasty]

Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.

Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting.  Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone.  Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals.  Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience.  Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.

Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others.  And respected their limitations. 

I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun.  Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would. 

It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about. 

I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."

I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will.  And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.     

 

Bob was a good man

Indeed.  I met him in The Sportsman in Livingston and then would see him at SHOT Shows when I was in the industry. 

My grandfather kind of started the Livingston Sportsman's Club.  He bought two traps and sunk them in concrete and would hook them with his wrecker and take them out to the Yellowstone River a couple evenings every week.  He would also buy a half boxcar of clay targets and cases of shotgun shells just get reimbursement for the cost of shotgun shells and targets.  That kind of made me a minor celebrity when I went out to the gun club.  Mike Venterino lived outside Livingston at that time, he still may.  I still have a dozen of the wooden shotshell cases that the shells came in back in those days.  There were hundreds of them in grandpa's basement when I was young,, if I had only known what they would be worth today.   

I would corner Bob at the SHOT Show and tell him of my trials and tribulations w/my super 14 223 barrel and he would offer helpful hints.  He was on "Team TC" and would take all the time in the world with me, kind of alluding, but not saying...". 

The last time I saw him he asked me if that 223 Contender barrel was figured out yet?  I told him:  I'm over it, I gave it to one of my employees and bought an XP 100.  Bob said:  Now your cooking with gas!  There was more to the conversation, but that is what I remember. 

He liked to shoot prairie dogs and we went to Roundup/Musselshell to a friend of mine's ranch once for an afternoon.  He had a scoped pistol and I had my model 65 in 218 Bee with a receiver sight on it and he thought it was really cool that a young guy with a Riimaki Sako in 222 and a Savage Anshutz in 222 Mag wanted to go screw around on a PD town with a model 65 for a day.   

   

[CaNINE]

I would recommend taking a course that emphasizes shooting from field rest positions, especially improvised field rests on sloped terrain. 

Elk of a lifetime 880 yards away and moving up the opposite ridge, he's going to pause for 5 seconds broadside just below the spine before he disappears forever. You look around and not a shooting bench or flat piece of ground to be found, forget prone and a bipod, you have 60 seconds to come up with a firing solution, establish a shooting position, determine if you have an ethical shot that you can execute and make the shot.

I'm not aware of anyone offering this type of training in Washington but if you're willing to go out of State I can offer some suggestions.

I took instruction from Non-Typical Outfitters in Wyoming and it was excellent. It's also just downright fun.

 

[jackelope]

Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.

Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting.  Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone.  Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals.  Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience.  Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.

Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others.  And respected their limitations. 

I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun.  Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would. 

It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about. 

I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."

I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will.  And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.     

 

Bob was a good man

Indeed.  I met him in The Sportsman in Livingston and then would see him at SHOT Shows when I was in the industry. 

My grandfather kind of started the Livingston Sportsman's Club.  He bought two traps and sunk them in concrete and would hook them with his wrecker and take them out to the Yellowstone River a couple evenings every week.  He would also buy a half boxcar of clay targets and cases of shotgun shells just get reimbursement for the cost of shotgun shells and targets.  That kind of made me a minor celebrity when I went out to the gun club.  Mike Venterino lived outside Livingston at that time, he still may.  I still have a dozen of the wooden shotshell cases that the shells came in back in those days.  There were hundreds of them in grandpa's basement when I was young,, if I had only known what they would be worth today.   

I would corner Bob at the SHOT Show and tell him of my trials and tribulations w/my super 14 223 barrel and he would offer helpful hints.  He was on "Team TC" and would take all the time in the world with me, kind of alluding, but not saying...". 

The last time I saw him he asked me if that 223 Contender barrel was figured out yet?  I told him:  I'm over it, I gave it to one of my employees and bought an XP 100.  Bob said:  Now your cooking with gas!  There was more to the conversation, but that is what I remember. 

He liked to shoot prairie dogs and we went to Roundup/Musselshell to a friend of mine's ranch once for an afternoon.  He had a scoped pistol and I had my model 65 in 218 Bee with a receiver sight on it and he thought it was really cool that a young guy with a Riimaki Sako in 222 and a Savage Anshutz in 222 Mag wanted to go screw around on a PD town with a model 65 for a day.   

 

JD-
How long ago were you an instructor for the patrol? WSP?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rbros]

We put on classes throughout the year.   This year we even have a class/hunt that will be available.   Guys make this out to be harder than it needs to be.  The fundamentals are still the same, a guy just has to learn a few new skills.   Once the tools are shown to someone then it's purely shooting time to refine skills.   Shooting from a bench is one of the biggest mistakes for guys hunting.   Last I checked, I haven't seen many out while hunting.  Get on the ground, practice off shooting sticks, uncomfortable positions, etc.  This is one of the reasons we feel the prs style matches help out hunters.   Very little is prone and you get very proficient shooting distance off odd positions.

[JDHasty]

Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.

Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting.  Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone.  Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals.  Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience.  Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.

Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others.  And respected their limitations. 

I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun.  Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would. 

It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about. 

I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."

I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will.  And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.     

 

Bob was a good man

Indeed.  I met him in The Sportsman in Livingston and then would see him at SHOT Shows when I was in the industry. 

My grandfather kind of started the Livingston Sportsman's Club.  He bought two traps and sunk them in concrete and would hook them with his wrecker and take them out to the Yellowstone River a couple evenings every week.  He would also buy a half boxcar of clay targets and cases of shotgun shells just get reimbursement for the cost of shotgun shells and targets.  That kind of made me a minor celebrity when I went out to the gun club.  Mike Venterino lived outside Livingston at that time, he still may.  I still have a dozen of the wooden shotshell cases that the shells came in back in those days.  There were hundreds of them in grandpa's basement when I was young,, if I had only known what they would be worth today.   

I would corner Bob at the SHOT Show and tell him of my trials and tribulations w/my super 14 223 barrel and he would offer helpful hints.  He was on "Team TC" and would take all the time in the world with me, kind of alluding, but not saying...". 

The last time I saw him he asked me if that 223 Contender barrel was figured out yet?  I told him:  I'm over it, I gave it to one of my employees and bought an XP 100.  Bob said:  Now your cooking with gas!  There was more to the conversation, but that is what I remember. 

He liked to shoot prairie dogs and we went to Roundup/Musselshell to a friend of mine's ranch once for an afternoon.  He had a scoped pistol and I had my model 65 in 218 Bee with a receiver sight on it and he thought it was really cool that a young guy with a Riimaki Sako in 222 and a Savage Anshutz in 222 Mag wanted to go screw around on a PD town with a model 65 for a day.   

 

JD-
How long ago were you an instructor for the patrol? WSP?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never.  I helped a guy that taught private classes and he had individuals come to him for help.  He was very good at teaching people to shoot with a handgun and was good friends with a girlfriend I had at the time.

IIRC he was paying me ~$15/hour to help him out with the range session parts of his classes.  Here is the craziest part of the whole experience of having known the guy...  about fifteen years after that time he was charged with murder and plead out to IIRC felony manslaughter for killing a gal in Utah back in the 1960s.

I always considered the guy to be little strange, but he was nice enough and had a reputation for being a very good handgun instructor.  He was in fact a darn good instructor, people left his classes shooting very well who could barely hit the target when they started his class.     

[yorketransport]

Just figure out how you learn best. If you think hands on instruction is how you learn and retain information the best, then find a good class. If you’re more of a “collective” learner then try going out with a group of experienced shooters and just watch, learn and absorb. If you’re a book learner then just read everything you can find, from reliable sources, and go try to apply it.

If you’re a capable shot at short range already, just get out and practice under field conditions at longer ranges. It’s easy to get information overload and get discouraged or overwhelmed if you listen to too many different opinions. You don’t necessarily have to understand exactly why or how a vehicle functions to be a proficient driver and you don’t necessarily have to understand the physics behind external ballistics to be a proficient long range shooter.

Just go out and shoot in some different conditions until you know and understand your limitations. With a little practice you’ll be amazed at how big a 10” target seems at 5-600 yards. It’s all about real world practice.

[W_Ellison2011]

 

[Bushcraft]

Here's a great opportunity for you and three of your buddies to take a long range shooting class. The auction is this coming Saturday.

http://www.onlinehuntingauctions.com/Introduction-to-Long-Range-Shooting-Class-with-Allen-Ernst_i28644033

I donate two or three every year and hold the classes on a private range near Naches, WA.  I've never had someone not be able to ring steel at a 1,000 yards by the end of the day, though not always with the rifles they bring.

I've had a couple guys who discovered they really had no business shooting at any living creature past 150 yards with the rifles they brought, but most guys are amazed at what they are able to reliably do at distances MUCH further than what they had originally thought possible. It's fun to watch the smiles on their faces light up once everything clicks and they start hammering steel at will.

DONATION:

This is a GREAT class to take before you buy a long-range rifle. Or, after you’ve bought one and want to learn how to make the most of it!

You are guaranteed to have a lot of fun and learn a lot during this one day course for up to four (4) people.

The objective of this course is to give the student shooter the knowledge and skill set to successfully hit targets out to the maximum effective range of their favorite big-game hunting rifle in real-world environmental conditions. This will be accomplished through classroom-type field instruction and then practical application on one of the nicest private long-range shooting ranges in the Pacific Northwest.

The morning will include a detailed discussion of the rifle components as a system, ballistics, ammo selection & preparation, proper cleaning, use of laser ballistic range-finder, wind estimation and effects, electronic ballistic applications and marksmanship concepts.

The remainder of the day will include equipment checks and hands-on real-world marksmanship practice. We will perform magneto chronographing during zero confirmation at 100 yards and then begin engaging steel targets in varying increments out to at least 1,000 yards (or much more!), environmental conditions and rifle/shooter capabilities pending. At the end of the course, the student should have a theoretical understanding of what it takes to reliably make first round hits at longer ranges.  Most importantly, the shooters will understand their real-world maximum effective shooting range when using their favorite hunting rifle.  The ethical hunter knows his capabilities and limitations!

Student shooters to provide their own rifle(s) and at least 50 rounds of ammo. Rifles should be chambered in big game hunting calibers and capable of shooting sub 1 MOA (1” groups or less) at one hundred yards. Preferably, scopes should have turrets with ¼ MOA (.25”) elevation and windage adjustments.  Muzzle brakes and suppressors are welcome!!! Dates to be mutually acceptable during late Spring through early Summer of 2018

[yorketransport]

That’s a great sounding class Bushcraft!