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Author Topic: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails  (Read 40035 times)

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2018, 06:00:01 PM »
The cattle are still private property.

If there is a car parked at a national forest trailhead that didn't pay the parking fee, can you just take the car?  (I'm assuming you're not like bigtex.)

Offline KFhunter

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2018, 06:10:53 PM »
It's not the first or last time someone's thought about shooting cattle when they get to where they don't belong, it's rustling, it's a felony and it's very serious.
http://www.beefmagazine.com/management/cattle-rustling-still-big-issue-west

Quote
A team effort
The Malheur County Sheriff’s Department stepped in and Skinner says they put so much pressure on the area that cattle rustling, for the most part, stopped.

Malheur County Sheriff Brian Wolfe says slowing down cattle theft in the area was a team effort by several different agencies, including BLM, Oregon State Police, Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, and the local ranchers who participated in meetings with counterparts in Idaho and Nevada.

Wolfe says his department increased backcountry and aircraft patrols. And, local producers who own aircraft, including the Skinners, fly a deputy over the area several times a week. Funding from BLM helps pay for the flights and the remainder of the costs come out of the Malheur County budget.

About 63 search-and-rescue volunteers also perform backcountry and livestock patrols using county vehicles and ATVs, up to seven days/ week.

Whenever other areas such as highway patrols are fully covered, Wolfe says full-time deputies are rerouted to the backcountry roads.

The Sheriff’s Department developed cards for ranchers to fill out with license plate numbers, dates and times when they spot an unattended vehicle in grazing areas. The card includes a section that can be torn off and placed on the vehicle’s windshield stating that the vehicle had been observed by the Malheur County Sheriff’s Department.

Many producers have winter grazing permits so the air and land patrols take place year around.

Several motion-sensing cameras have also been set up to monitor areas where gates have been previously left open or vandalism to private property has taken place, and in areas where small bales of hay have been stolen. Hay theft, Wolfe says, hasn’t been a huge problem, but it does happen, usually 4-5 bales at a time.

As added incentive, pledges from livestock producers, which as of December 2011 totaled $63,000, are being offered as a reward for information leading to convictions.

Although the incidence of cattle rustling has lessened – from several hundred head to the occasional 10-15 – Wolfe says everyone remains diligent.

“It’s best to use preventive methods rather than react to the crime,” he says. “An ounce of prevention is definitely worth a pound of cure.”

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2018, 06:36:04 PM »
The Federal Government is in fact taking over State Land in the West.  That is one of the underlying issues in this case. What do you think the Antiquities Act is all about. It’s the Feds taking millions of acres from the States. I have friends in the Columbia Gorge.  They were a multigeneration farming/ranching operation that could not compete in the era of new federal rules once their land was moved from state to federal control. Their land is now owned by a conservation group. Grand Staircase Escalante. I Jeeped there last year.  It was a huge land grab by the feds and President Clinton  President Trump realized this and is greatly reducing its size. The Bundys are the pawn that states wanted to push back on an overzealous conservation movement that started under good intentions    It’s a struggle for balance.  It’s States vs Antiques Act.


Trump’s Utah monuments decision restores lands taken in past thefts

Reducing Antiquities Act Land Grabs


"In reality, the actual thefts were masterminded and conducted by previous White House officials, in cahoots with radical environmentalists. Employing the immense power of the federal government, they took valuable state lands, multiple private lands and property rights, and a private company’s most valuable asset (America’s largest clean coal deposit) without any compensation whatsoever.”


http://freerangereport.com/index.php/2017/12/18/utah-monuments-decision-restores-lands-taken-in-past-thefts/



In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only.  s:  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml



LAND TRUSTS OR LAND AGENTS?

https://www.perc.org/articles/land-trusts-or-land-agents

In the Bundy case Harry Reid and crew were after a large swath of land for mining and a Chinese Solar farm.

The Bundy's were the last ranch that stood in the way of Harry Reid and the Chinese...

The Bundy's stood against Corruption and Won. :tup: :tup:



The Hammonds didn't fare as well:

Flashback: Ammon Bundy explains video of BLM agents burning private ranches

http://freerangereport.com/index.php/2018/01/11/flashback-ammon-bundy-explains-video-of-blm-agents-burning-private-ranches/


This is how YOU can help free the Hammonds

http://freerangereport.com/index.php/2018/01/09/this-is-how-you-can-help-free-the-hammonds/


Scathing letter from Congress to BLM director cites Bundy Ranch debacle, Steinle murder

http://freerangereport.com/index.php/2018/01/13/scathing-letter-from-congress-to-blm-director-cites-bundy-ranch-debacle-steinle-murder/
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 07:43:27 PM by wolfbait »

Offline farmin4u_98948

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2018, 07:09:46 PM »
Good job Wolfbait.    :yeah:
Just because you believe something is true doesn't mean that it is true!

Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2018, 07:15:31 PM »
The irony of this thread. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Offline Special T

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2018, 08:16:31 PM »
The irony of this thread. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
So I'm not the only one that sees the similarities  to these situations and tribes?

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Offline PlateauNDN

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2018, 08:33:19 PM »
The irony of this thread. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
So I'm not the only one that sees the similarities  to these situations and tribes?

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I seen it a few days ago, but forgot my login and couldn't post.
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Offline Special T

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2018, 08:39:39 PM »
Lol

I see several. There are many similarities when agreements are entered into when there is not an explicit contract termination.

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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2018, 09:42:51 PM »
Lol

I see several. There are many similarities when agreements are entered into when there is not an explicit contract termination.

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Can you post the agreement you reference?  The court order I posted contradicts any suggestion of an agreement or a right.  Not even a small comparison between Bundy and Tribes.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline farmin4u_98948

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2018, 10:00:43 PM »
Just because you believe something is true doesn't mean that it is true!

Offline farmin4u_98948

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2018, 10:15:24 PM »
I was at Crane Hotsprings which is where the outlaw ranchers were meeting south of Burns a week after Leroy Finicum was killed. Heard story after story of how the federal govt was making ranching impossible. Documented accounts of how they changed grazing leases mid lease. Drastically changing the AUM. Forcing ranchers to sell because they couldn’t afford to feed hay. To ranch you have to know how many animals the land can support. You have loans to buy animals and equipment. Then when you loose your lease or have the AUM drastically changed it puts you into a huge crisis.   Just as many hunters feel that the game Dept is not acting in your interests so is the same feeling towards the feds by ranchers. There is a huge anti hunting and anti ranching climate in the federal govt.
Just because you believe something is true doesn't mean that it is true!

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #101 on: January 15, 2018, 12:35:04 PM »
Lol

I see several. There are many similarities when agreements are entered into when there is not an explicit contract termination.

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Can you post the agreement you reference?  The court order I posted contradicts any suggestion of an agreement or a right.  Not even a small comparison between Bundy and Tribes.
In the second paragraph of the background it sounds like they applied for a permit from the BLM in 54 that they had already been grazing.

If you want to make the point that they should not have entered into that agreement be cause that gave up his previous rights, then we would need to see that agreement, and how that agreement has changed over time, and how it would effect a previous right.  I don't see anywhere in that legal document where it denies that the Bundies had not run cattle  before the  the first agreement in 54. its possible I missed something so feel free to point it out.

People seem to infer that because I would like to see this adressed regarding property rights that I'm some kind of Big Bundy supporter. I'm not per say, but I haven't seen an Article that lays it out.

If I wanted to go rent land now to start up ST cattle it would be under whatever kind of agreement was put in front of me.

Are you saying that the Bundies had not Ranches that area before the agreement? I belive I had read that they had been ranching since the 1880s or something to that effect.

I'd love to see a time line of the issues at hand, and I belive it starts way before 1954. 2c

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Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #102 on: January 15, 2018, 02:18:35 PM »
I was at Crane Hotsprings which is where the outlaw ranchers were meeting south of Burns a week after Leroy Finicum was killed. Heard story after story of how the federal govt was making ranching impossible. Documented accounts of how they changed grazing leases mid lease. Drastically changing the AUM. Forcing ranchers to sell because they couldn’t afford to feed hay. To ranch you have to know how many animals the land can support. You have loans to buy animals and equipment. Then when you loose your lease or have the AUM drastically changed it puts you into a huge crisis.   Just as many hunters feel that the game Dept is not acting in your interests so is the same feeling towards the feds by ranchers. There is a huge anti hunting and anti ranching climate in the federal govt.



LaVoy was assassinated, not killed.
I couldn't care less about what anybody says..............

Offline KFhunter

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #103 on: January 15, 2018, 02:24:42 PM »
Lavoy didn't have to let himself be "assassinated", had he not fled, declared on TV he wouldn't go to jail and make it known that he was packing then nearly ram a road block then jump out of the vehicle yelling to shoot him then reach for his pockets, well he'd probably be out of jail now along with Bundy and everyone else hugging his kiddies and doing what he was doing before this whole fiasco. 

but he choose do all those things, and got himself "assassinated" for it, if the plan was for the police to to kill him...he sure made it easy to get away with it.

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails
« Reply #104 on: January 15, 2018, 02:34:32 PM »
Lavoy didn't have to let himself be "assassinated", had he not fled, declared on TV he wouldn't go to jail and make it known that he was packing then nearly ram a road block then jump out of the vehicle yelling to shoot him then reach for his pockets, well he'd probably be out of jail now along with Bundy and everyone else hugging his kiddies and doing what he was doing before this whole fiasco. 

but he choose do all those things, and got himself "assassinated" for it, if the plan was for the police to to kill him...he sure made it easy to get away with it.





The corrupt government pulled the trigger, they assassinated him. They gave no commands when stopped originally and he told them he was going to meet the Sheriff. The corrupt government already had the wheels of justice rolling and it was to kill everyone in the truck. It's all provided in evidence. Anybody and everybody can say, you'll have to kill me, I'm not going to jail. You can't shoot someone for saying that, It's our 1st amendment right.
I couldn't care less about what anybody says..............

 


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