Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags

[KFhunter]

If it's a small concentrated area we should be darting the cows with ivomec

[bearpaw]

If it's a small concentrated area we should be darting the cows with ivomec

Have bio's determined that works?

[KFhunter]

Ya, works on literally everything, even humans (not in the USA though)

They use ivomec treated corn to kill deer ticks off deer in heavily hit areas, I've never heard of being used on moose but it would work.  If they could bait moose with corn that would work too, but with moose I think darting might be the most effective


you can rub it on, inject it or ingest it.   the ticks would suck the blood and be poisoned and fall off 


You could even use a drone to dart the moose

[bearpaw]

Ya, works on literally everything, even humans (not in the USA though)

They use ivomec treated corn to kill deer ticks off deer in heavily hit areas, I've never heard of being used on moose but it would work.  If they could bait moose with corn that would work too, but with moose I think darting might be the most effective


you can rub it on, inject it or ingest it.   the ticks would suck the blood and be poisoned and fall off 


You could even use a drone to dart the moose

Interesting, sounds like if WDFW organized some volunteers we could save some moose. I would gladly volunteer for moose darting, I bet lots of other hunters would too! I wonder what would happen if the same moose got darted more than once? Overdose?

[KFhunter]

If you're curious

http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2344&Itemid=2996

Mechanism of Action of Ivermectin
As all macrocyclic lactones, ivermectin acts as agonist of the GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) neurotransmitter in nerve cells and also binds to glutamate-gated chloride channels in nerve and muscle cells of invertebrates. In both cases it blocks the transmission of neuronal signals of the parasites, which are paralyzed and expelled out of the body, or they starve. It also affects the reproduction of some parasites by diminishing oviposition or inducing an abnormal oogenesis.

In mammals the GABA receptors occur only in the central nervous system (CNS), i.e. in the brain and the spinal chord. But mammals have a so-called blood-brain barrier that prevents microscopic objects and large molecules to get into the brain. Consequently macrocyclic lactones are much less toxic to mammals than to parasites without such a barrier, which allows quite high safety margins for use on livestock and pets. A notable exception to this are dog breeds that carry the MDR-1 gene defect (see later).


check out swine 


Swine

Swine tolerate ivermectin very well.
Doses 10 to 50 times higher than the therapeutic dose of 0.3 mg/kg (single subcutaneous injection) caused no toxic symptoms.
A single subcutaneous injection of 30 mg/kg (100 times the therapeutic dose) causes lethargy, ataxia (uncoordinated movements), mydriasis (dilatation of the pupils) and tremor (uncoordinated trembling or shaking movements).

[KFhunter]

For deer


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8667385


Systemic treatment of white-tailed deer with ivermectin-medicated bait to control free-living populations of lone star ticks (Acari:Ixodidae).
Pound JM1, Miller JA, George JE, Oehler DD, Harmel DE.
Author information
Abstract
Whole-kernel corn was treated with 10 mg ivermectin per 0.45 kg corn and fed at rate of approximately .45 kg/deer per day to white-tailed deer confined in the treatment pasture, whereas deer in an adjacent control pasture received a similar ration of untreated corn. Treatments were dispensed from February through September of 1992 and 1993, and free-living populations of lone star ticks. Amblyomma americanum (L.), were monitored in both pastures using dry-ice traps to quantify nymphs and adults and flip-cloths to assay the relative abundance of larval masses. Control values that were calculated for all ticks collected in both pastures during 1993 showed 83.4% fewer adults, 92.4% fewer nymphs and 100.0% fewer larval masses in the treatment versus control pasture. Serum ivermectin concentrations in treated deer averaged 21.7 and 28.3 ppb during 1992 and 1993, respectively. These values compared favorably with the goal concentration of 30.0 ppb which was anticipated under ideal conditions. This study demonstrates that a freely consumed, systemically active acaricidal bait ingested by white-tailed deer under nearly wild conditions can significantly reduce the abundance of all stages of free-living long star ticks.

[KFhunter]

This is talking about moose ticks prior to ivomec being on the market, but it's a facinating article about raising moose

https://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/specialstock/resources/Haigh%27s%20notes/Moose.pdf




Here it's talking about moose racing and how they almost always beat the best horses, it also says moose riding was outlawed because the RCMP couldn't catch the villains on a moose 

[buglebrush]

Darting moose would be totally awesome!  Really should do that too.

[Pathfinder101]

I haven't seen the proposal.  How much are they planning to cut regular moose cow tags?

I count 32 in the regular antlerless category last year. For this year it looks like either 33 or 36, depending on what the actual number is for the one hunt that shows 74 tags, an obvious typo. I assume it should be either 7, or 4.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2018-2020/wac/220-415-070.pdf

Ok, so let me get this straight:
There were 18 youth tags, now there will be one.
There were 32 cow moose tags, there are still going to be at least 32.

Which begs the question:  Why didn't they just eliminate ALL the youth tags.  Why just leave the one?

Again... I ask myself "Why did WDFW do that.." and my answer has to be (again).  How does this affect their revenue stream?
You see, if they eliminate the youth tags altogether... then they lose out on the kids that will put in for them (lost revenue). 
And they left the regular cow tags the same.  Why would they do that?
Because they are making 10 times more money off that draw.

Tell me $$ isn't driving this.

For the record: I know the moose population is hurting up there... I've seen it.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't eliminate youth tags, but I think we should eliminate the same percentage of regular cow moose tags.   

[bobcat]

I haven't seen the proposal.  How much are they planning to cut regular moose cow tags?

I count 32 in the regular antlerless category last year. For this year it looks like either 33 or 36, depending on what the actual number is for the one hunt that shows 74 tags, an obvious typo. I assume it should be either 7, or 4.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2018-2020/wac/220-415-070.pdf

Ok, so let me get this straight:
There were 18 youth tags, now there will be one.
There were 32 cow moose tags, there are still going to be at least 32.

Which begs the question:  Why didn't they just eliminate ALL the youth tags.  Why just leave the one?

Again... I ask myself "Why did WDFW do that.." and my answer has to be (again).  How does this affect their revenue stream?
You see, if they eliminate the youth tags altogether... then they lose out on the kids that will put in for them (lost revenue). 
And they left the regular cow tags the same.  Why would they do that?
Because they are making 10 times more money off that draw.

Tell me $$ isn't driving this.

For the record: I know the moose population is hurting up there... I've seen it.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't eliminate youth tags, but I think we should eliminate the same percentage of regular cow moose tags.   

Agree! 

[buglebrush]

I haven't seen the proposal.  How much are they planning to cut regular moose cow tags?

I count 32 in the regular antlerless category last year. For this year it looks like either 33 or 36, depending on what the actual number is for the one hunt that shows 74 tags, an obvious typo. I assume it should be either 7, or 4.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2018-2020/wac/220-415-070.pdf

Ok, so let me get this straight:
There were 18 youth tags, now there will be one.
There were 32 cow moose tags, there are still going to be at least 32.

Which begs the question:  Why didn't they just eliminate ALL the youth tags.  Why just leave the one?

Again... I ask myself "Why did WDFW do that.." and my answer has to be (again).  How does this affect their revenue stream?
You see, if they eliminate the youth tags altogether... then they lose out on the kids that will put in for them (lost revenue). 
And they left the regular cow tags the same.  Why would they do that?
Because they are making 10 times more money off that draw.

Tell me $$ isn't driving this.

For the record: I know the moose population is hurting up there... I've seen it.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't eliminate youth tags, but I think we should eliminate the same percentage of regular cow moose tags.   

Agree, and any decision WDFW makes seems to be driven by either money or politics not sound management / hunter opportunity. 

[bearpaw]

I haven't seen the proposal.  How much are they planning to cut regular moose cow tags?

I count 32 in the regular antlerless category last year. For this year it looks like either 33 or 36, depending on what the actual number is for the one hunt that shows 74 tags, an obvious typo. I assume it should be either 7, or 4.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2018-2020/wac/220-415-070.pdf

Ok, so let me get this straight:
There were 18 youth tags, now there will be one.
There were 32 cow moose tags, there are still going to be at least 32.

Which begs the question:  Why didn't they just eliminate ALL the youth tags.  Why just leave the one?

Again... I ask myself "Why did WDFW do that.." and my answer has to be (again).  How does this affect their revenue stream?
You see, if they eliminate the youth tags altogether... then they lose out on the kids that will put in for them (lost revenue). 
And they left the regular cow tags the same.  Why would they do that?
Because they are making 10 times more money off that draw.

Tell me $$ isn't driving this.

For the record: I know the moose population is hurting up there... I've seen it.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't eliminate youth tags, but I think we should eliminate the same percentage of regular cow moose tags.   

Agree!

  agree x3

[Gringo31]

Which begs the question:  Why didn't they just eliminate ALL the youth tags.  Why just leave the one?

To keep that category open for $$$$$ generated on folks willing to pay for the chance.

[Ridgerunner]

Ding, Ding, winner winner, chicken dinner! $$$$$$$

[Whitpirate]

I've got to agree with benhuntin as well.  I have a 10 year old that I would LOVE to see draw a youth moose tag, but when I go home to visit family and friends (I grew up in Kettle Falls), the moose population just isn't there anymore.  My BIL works for the highway dept in Steven's Co.  He keeps an eye out for them, and has seen a drastic reduction in numbers.  2 of my buddies that are loggers (and have max points for moose) say the same thing.  We are all a little scared to draw a tag right now to be honest.  There are still bulls out there, but not nearly what there were 5 or 6 years ago.
The truth is that if the moose aren't at carrying capacity, you have to rebuild the population by not killing the cows.  Youth tags are cow tags.   

Then replace it with a bull tag.  And all adult tags are ANY moose.  Not bull.

Cutting our nose off in spite of our face to continue to diminish youth opportunity.  My 13 year old knows of 2 other kids in his school that hunt.  2!  This is a school of 400-600 kids.  Sad testament to our times.