209 Muzzy's In Washington

[Twang]

Indeed  if you want to shot long, use  scope, be careless with your powder and primer go mod and quit changing it to suit you when that hunt already exists. You ruin it for others. Better yet, stack me up and go semi auto

[floatinghat]

more heat at the ignition point which then creates the 'crud ring'.

Interesting,  What effect does the shape of the BP have on the crud ring?  I notice the crud ring much more on my Knight vs a White.  I wondered if the bowl shape of the White BP was the cause.  Next question could the Knight BP be modified to achieve a similar result? 

[Sabotloader]

more heat at the ignition point which then creates the 'crud ring'.

Interesting,  What effect does the shape of the BP have on the crud ring?  I notice the crud ring much more on my Knight vs a White.  I wondered if the bowl shape of the White BP was the cause.  Next question could the Knight BP be modified to achieve a similar result?

Not sure on the shape/construction of the BP creating a difference... Is your White use a 209 ignition?  I guess I should ask about the Knight also - 209?

For me shooting caps from either the White or a Knight no real difference at all in fact I really do not even patch when shooting caps.

[BigGoonTuna]

Indeed  if you want to shot long, use  scope, be careless with your powder and primer go mod and quit changing it to suit you when that hunt already exists. You ruin it for others. Better yet, stack me up and go semi auto

wow, tell us how you really feel!

[floatinghat]

more heat at the ignition point which then creates the 'crud ring'.

Interesting,  What effect does the shape of the BP have on the crud ring?  I notice the crud ring much more on my Knight vs a White.  I wondered if the bowl shape of the White BP was the cause.  Next question could the Knight BP be modified to achieve a similar result?

Sorry I have been travelling on business, both are #11.

Not sure on the shape/construction of the BP creating a difference... Is your White use a 209 ignition?  I guess I should ask about the Knight also - 209?

For me shooting caps from either the White or a Knight no real difference at all in fact I really do not even patch when shooting caps.

[reelamin]

So can we use 209's now in Wa???    I have looked with my limited internet skills and never found a final answer.

[JimmyHoffa]

So can we use 209's now in Wa???    I have looked with my limited internet skills and never found a final answer.

More than likely it looks like 2018 will be the first season for it, but won't know for sure until the new regs are adopted by the WDFW commission in a few weeks.

[mallardaddict]

So can we use 209's now in Wa???    I have looked with my limited internet skills and never found a final answer.

The proposal will be presented and public opinion allowed 03/14-16 I believe in Wenatchee at the annual meeting. Assuming it passes this committee it goes to the board for final adoption or denial I believe 04/12.

I ah e talked to many folks in the wdfw and most think it will pass.

If so I will take advantage of the change, if not I have other muzzleloader I can use no sweat.

My only concern is the outright attacks even in this board by the anti 209 crowd on the pro 209 crowd. Different strokes for different folks but I have issue begrudging another individual or group because they think differnt then me.  We are all on the same team and 209’s and sealed breeches have been repeatedly shown to only slightly if at all better then open ignitions.

This rule change will indeed attract a few more hunters, but that is likely to be short lived. The real benefit is that it opens the Washington state muzzleloader market to a *censored* load more muzzleloader platforms.

[floatinghat]

Interesting those with a different opinion are attacking and antis.   "Different strokes for different folks but I have issue begrudging another individual or group because they think differnt then me."  Irony here, you appear to want to make your pro point and not let others have input and name label then anti's and attackers.

I have mentioned my concern, if it brings more people to muzzy the number of animals harvest will increase and that will effect the seasons.  We have already had people suggest lengthening the early season and shortening the late season.

 True some people will come in for a couple of seasons and quit. 

If there is only a slight improvement why the fuss.  What platforms are needed with our open sight restrictions?  I see the next request 0x scopes...

[mallardaddict]

  Irony here, you appear to want to make your pro point and not let others have input and name label then anti's and attackers.

Holy shït did you even read what I wrote dude?  Do me a favor find 1 single post on any forum where I have ever cast the first attack at anyone for their thoughts and preferences and I will gladly rub your nose in the fact that you can’t.

I also said nothing about a “need” for new weapons platforms but rather I support allowing hunters a greater option of brands and models. The state doesn’t say you can only use Remington rifles and not savage under modern firearm rules  So why are we excluding over 75% of the muzzleloader on the market.  Again if your happy with the weapon you use why do you care what I use as long as it’s legal and ethical?

I also don’t think we will see a decrease in seasons simply because they allow 209’s.  As the bow rules were relaxed to allow higher let off, expanadable broadheads, lighted nicks etc we have watched a steady increase in not only in participants but also in success ratios.  Despite these increases bow hunters have not suffered any measurable loss of their seasons that wasn’t also enacted on ML and Rifle seasons.

I prefer 209 primers for the ability to reliably ignite pellets or perhaps BH209 if I choose.  None of these powders give any significant velocity or energy increases over real black, just have slightly easier cleaning. It isn’t like this is legislation to allow smokeless mizzleloaders.  Again how is this bad?

Sealed breeches can help cut down on hangfires which could undeniably have a positive effect on decreased wounding of animals from hangfires. A guy can already legally tape or plastic wrap his breechplug area to seal it so why the big deal of a gun comes with sealed breech?

It comes down to emotion and no scientific data to support the exclusion of 209’s as presented by the anti 209 crowd trying to overshadow data and statistics that the pro 209 group have posted.

Sounds a lot like our current gun control fights to me but sadly this is occurring between people who are on the same team!

So yes I did already buy a sealed 209 barrel for my pro encore but if that legislation fails to pass I will gladly use one of my other smokepole that has had no issues killing elk year after year.

[floatinghat]

Yes, I did read your post. If you read clearly,  I wrote you "label them anti's and attackers"  these are not positive connotations.  Additionally, I am not seeing where I stated you did anything other than "label" a faction that has an opposing perspective.

 "We are all on the same team and 209’s and sealed breeches have been repeatedly shown to only slightly if at all better then open ignitions"  Implication is the people who don't agree should go along with your team and persepctive. 

You were asked what new platforms we need in responce to "it will open Washington to new platforms".  So this is more of a let me shoot what I want.  So similar to the peeps that want to legalize .22x for big game hunting?

Success, the seasons duration are directly tied to harvest success rates.  Sure it takes a few years for things to catch up, few days here and there.  Not certain if the previously massive allocation of Cow Elk Permits is the clearest indicator?   

209's, I have rarely shot pellets but a friend does and hasn't had ignition issues.  You can easily shoot BH209 by duplexing (I am not suggesting you duplex) only saying a number of people duplex BH209.    I'll agree there are advantages to 209's but that doesn't mean the legislation should allow it. Most of the issues (hang fire) with #11/MC are easily addressed with good planning and preperation.

What happens will happen and we will see the results in about 9-12 years. IMO, status quo little to risk, allow 209's I think that increases.   As I have said in the past, I don't have a great deal of confidence for positive fixes come from Olympia.   

I'll give you what could be a positive, more people, opens more GMU's. 


From my tablet sorry if I missed anything

[W_Ellison2011]

  Irony here, you appear to want to make your pro point and not let others have input and name label then anti's and attackers.

Holy shït did you even read what I wrote dude?  Do me a favor find 1 single post on any forum where I have ever cast the first attack at anyone for their thoughts and preferences and I will gladly rub your nose in the fact that you can’t.

I also said nothing about a “need” for new weapons platforms but rather I support allowing hunters a greater option of brands and models. The state doesn’t say you can only use Remington rifles and not savage under modern firearm rules  So why are we excluding over 75% of the muzzleloader on the market.  Again if your happy with the weapon you use why do you care what I use as long as it’s legal and ethical?

I also don’t think we will see a decrease in seasons simply because they allow 209’s.  As the bow rules were relaxed to allow higher let off, expanadable broadheads, lighted nicks etc we have watched a steady increase in not only in participants but also in success ratios.  Despite these increases bow hunters have not suffered any measurable loss of their seasons that wasn’t also enacted on ML and Rifle seasons.

I prefer 209 primers for the ability to reliably ignite pellets or perhaps BH209 if I choose.  None of these powders give any significant velocity or energy increases over real black, just have slightly easier cleaning. It isn’t like this is legislation to allow smokeless mizzleloaders.  Again how is this bad?

Sealed breeches can help cut down on hangfires which could undeniably have a positive effect on decreased wounding of animals from hangfires. A guy can already legally tape or plastic wrap his breechplug area to seal it so why the big deal of a gun comes with sealed breech?

It comes down to emotion and no scientific data to support the exclusion of 209’s as presented by the anti 209 crowd trying to overshadow data and statistics that the pro 209 group have posted.

Sounds a lot like our current gun control fights to me but sadly this is occurring between people who are on the same team!

So yes I did already buy a sealed 209 barrel for my pro encore but if that legislation fails to pass I will gladly use one of my other smokepole that has had no issues killing elk year after year.

Haven't seen much of a decrease in west side muzzy or mf deer seasons... Archery deer lost a week... Just saying.. Things have changed! Used to be September 1st-30th for early archery and now its the 24th and there has been talk of them taking a few days off the beginning of September as well. Same goes for fall bear season in the unit I used to hunt them in. Used to open August 1st. Now it opens August 15th due to increased harvest.