Long range for beginners

[jasnt]

Did a little practice today. Set up for a full value wind at 3-7mph.


shot a 1 moa rock at 1150 yards. First round hit.  3rd round hit at 1245 yards on 1 moa Rock.   I can't quite tell where I'm hitting at 1550. That's where I run out of dial at 54.2 moa.  Rocks measured with my scope.  A spotter would have been handy today.   All off the bi pod sitting position.

[jasnt]

Second focal plane vs first focal plane.

Personally sfp is what I prefer. Rarely am I shooting long range at lower than max power. I dial for distance and hold for wind. I don't like a huge cross hair at max power and I don't like losing my rectical at min power. This is just my preference.

Let's hear what you prefer and why

[Biggerhammer]

Tried first focal... LAME. Second focal is great. MOA reticle, screw Mil's, we aren't in Europe.

Works for me.

[mountainman]

Second focal plane vs first focal plane.

Personally sfp is what I prefer. Rarely am I shooting long range at lower than max power. I dial for distance and hold for wind. I don't like a huge cross hair at max power and I don't like losing my rectical at min power. This is just my preference.

Let's hear what you prefer and why

Same here. Ffp for hunting, sfp for long range varminting, competition, or whenever stretching out being 7- 800 yards. Mils or mins. Preference. Most who are outspoken on one or the other Haven't tried both. Boils down to what you learn best at. Moa tends to be more precise, mils a bit easier to calc and call. Most can't shoot the difference

[BULLBLASTER]

Mil-dot

More of an MOA guy myself 

MOAs aren’t near as tacticool sounding as mil dots

If you're just trying to sound tacticool call it like it is, they're mil-radians.

Sent from my LG-K425 using Tapatalk

Mil dot is a type of reticle. That reticle pattern is called mil dots... yes it uses milliradians as a measurement unit.

[Magnum_Willys]

Mils are so much easier to use.  1/1000 is a mil so whether yards or meters still works. At 1000 yards a mil is one yard. A tenth mil is 1/10 yard or 3.6 inches.
Now moa is 1/60th of a degree or approx an inch at 100 yards. So 1000 yards a mos is 10 inches. Just a more cumbersum computation.  But both can be gotten used to.   I pick the scope and if mils great otherwise moa is fine.  Have 1/8th moa on my 7x47 leupold and like it. 

[Biggerhammer]

Been there done that. MOA.

[jasnt]

Anealing brass. When and how often?

When I first learned to aneal I would do it once every 4 loadings. It worked well and my brass lasted a very long time.  I don't run high preasure so my primer pockets rarely open up.  As my skills improved I started chancing the acuracey rabbit.  Picked up a concentricity gage.  First lot I checked was a freshly anealed lot and my worst ones where a .0015" out.  I thought well that was a waste of money! But I continued to check them after sizing. 2nd loading I averaged .002-.003 still good but I wondered what I did differently.  3rd loading .002-.005   Hmmm. Fourth loading  .003-.007".  Now I was resizing some brass twice to straighten the bad ones. Then I check case length. Hmmm all different ranging .01".  I anealed resized and trimmed and checked again. .0015" extreme spred on concentricity.  I kept up this cycle for few weeks trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.  It finially dawned on me after reading an article about brass work hardening and spring back. I decided to do like some of the nut jobs online that preached about anealing every loading

What happened? Well my brass stayed in the .001-.002 area for concentric, all my brass grew at the same rate with in .002".  Resizing was easier, seating was easier, trimming was easier.  Grouping improved at distance, Es/sd went down and most importantly confidence went up.
Now I'm one of those whack jobs online preaching about annealing every loading!

I used to anneal with a drill going super slow and a bit I made to hold the cases and then drop them in water to stop the heat from going down too far on the case.  Now I anneal by hand. Holding the brass by the head and turning it by hand. Then I set it on a tin plate to cool. No water mess or waiting for brass to dry, heat dosent go past the shoulders but maybe .1-.15"  still getting the same results but faster and less fuss. Typically when I finish the last peace I'm able to just start picking them up and place them in my loading block. They cool quickly.

Jmo based of my exp. 

[Bill W]

Anealing brass. When and how often?

When I first learned to aneal I would do it once every 4 loadings. It worked well and my brass lasted a very long time.  I don't run high preasure so my primer pockets rarely open up.  As my skills improved I started chancing the acuracey rabbit.  Picked up a concentricity gage.  First lot I checked was a freshly anealed lot and my worst ones where a .0015" out.  I thought well that was a waste of money! But I continued to check them after sizing. 2nd loading I averaged .002-.003 still good but I wondered what I did differently.  3rd loading .002-.005   Hmmm. Fourth loading  .003-.007".  Now I was resizing some brass twice to straighten the bad ones. Then I check case length. Hmmm all different ranging .01".  I anealed resized and trimmed and checked again. .0015" extreme spred on concentricity.  I kept up this cycle for few weeks trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.  It finially dawned on me after reading an article about brass work hardening and spring back. I decided to do like some of the nut jobs online that preached about anealing every loading

What happened? Well my brass stayed in the .001-.002 area for concentric, all my brass grew at the same rate with in .002".  Resizing was easier, seating was easier, trimming was easier.  Grouping improved at distance, Es/sd went down and most importantly confidence went up.
Now I'm one of those whack jobs online preaching about annealing every loading!

I used to anneal with a drill going super slow and a bit I made to hold the cases and then drop them in water to stop the heat from going down too far on the case.  Now I anneal by hand. Holding the brass by the head and turning it by hand. Then I set it on a tin plate to cool. No water mess or waiting for brass to dry, heat dosent go past the shoulders but maybe .1-.15"  still getting the same results but faster and less fuss. Typically when I finish the last peace I'm able to just start picking them up and place them in my loading block. They cool quickly.

Jmo based of my exp.

My assumption is you are using a standard die for resizing and not a neck bushing die.   I use a neck bushing die and my case necks stay straight and also don't grow.

[CaNINE]

I've done similar experiments and watch accuracy go all to heck after several cycles without annealing. I now anneal after every firing cycle. Consistent neck tension and longer brass life. I anneal after cleaning and prior to full length resizing. These are hunting guns so I full length size every time. I don't use the expander ball though for neck sizing. I use a turning mandrel in a sinclair die body to ensure consistent and even 0.002 neck tension.

[jasnt]

It was a standard die.  This was few years ago. I do now use a bushing die. But annealing as I did fixed the issue I had with the std dies and other issues I had.   I continue to be happy with the results for the few min it adds to my loading time.   I prob should have had that info in the post.   If you want to try it and see if your happy with the results. If not continue doing it how you want to and enjoy life. 

[Bill W]

I don't anneal and have loaded my cases numerous times.... probably at least 40 or more times.  As long as my primer pockets don't enlarge or the necks break off I'm good to go.   I have a set of 20 formed and neck turned cases that I shoot. 

[Magnum_Willys]

I've done similar experiments and watch accuracy go all to heck after several cycles without annealing. I now anneal after every firing cycle. Consistent neck tension and longer brass life. I anneal after cleaning and prior to full length resizing. These are hunting guns so I full length size every time. I don't use the expander ball though for neck sizing. I use a turning mandrel in a sinclair die body to ensure consistent and even 0.002 neck tension.

same exact results and method except neck size for best accuracy but hoping new custom whidden die will give me neck-size accuracy otherwise Im neck - neck - bump every 3 loadings.

[jasnt]

I personally feel you get more consistancey bumping every loading. I don't want something different every 3rd or forth loading. I want every loading to be exactly the same. Plus it's easier to keep track of if you do it the same every single time.  I used to trim every time aswell but did not see any improvement doing that in my loading practices so I do that as needed

[yorketransport]

After hearing the steps some of you guys take in brass prep I'm amazed that I ever hit anything!

I don't sort cases, I rarely trim them, I don't really like bushing dies, I anneal brass whenever I have time, I've never even considered owning a concentricity gauge, and every once in a while I might tumble my brass.

For optics I don't have a preference between MOA or MIL; I have both and like both. Heck, I even mix MOA turrets with MIL reticles on some scopes just to bug people. Depending on the type of shooting I'm doing, I like both FFP and SFP. SFP is better for shooting groups and dialing because of the ability to have a finer reticle. FFP is more fun when just playing "bet you can't hit that" and constantly making corrections at unknown ranges without having to worry about what magnification I'm on. I rarely shoot any of my scopes on max power, so having to make the correction to adjust the reticle scale to selected magnification on a SFP scope gets annoying.

That brings a good bit of advise for new LR shooters: You don't need a 32x scope to hit stuff at 1000 yards! Focus on optical quality and adjustment repeat-ability first. I'd take a 10x scope with good adjustments and clear glass over a 24x scope with OK adjustments and decent glass. I've spent a lot of time shooting at 1 MOA targets at 1500+ yards with 10-12x scopes and I've never felt like my magnification was holding me back.