Bullet experences requested, Help me understand the Berger for big game

[Goshawk]

I've been shooting and hunting since the 60's and have dropped a lot of game and almost always done the autopsy to see bullet performance.  I've gone back and forth over the years as different bullets types came and sometimes went, and would like to have this groups more vast experience than mine chime in.

The only time I've ever been let down by any bullet is when it comes apart or fragments after the impact cutting short it's mass and penetration.  Tough bullets like the old Speer Grand slams, Nosler Partitions and Barnes all copper are on one end of the "hell for stout" spectrum. This style of bullet has never let me down from heavy bone to even passing though a small tree before hitting the animal and still holding together enough for a good kill.

One of the things I have yet to figure out is the Berger line of bullets.  To me, they look like a varmint bullet, penetrating just a few inches before coming apart and fragmenting or as they say "grenading".  I suppose that's all and fine if every shot you have is perfect broad side where everything ends up in the lungs, but what about quartering forward shots, downhill or other less than ideal angles?  It seems to me like a bullet that shreds apart would be the last thing you would want in the chamber; yet Berger users are a loyal following to say the least.

The Berger line is the only line I've never used.  I'd like to hear from a few folks who have used them under less than ideal angles and bullet placement.  Do they stay together long enough to break an elk or bison leg bone?  Their own advertising talks about loosing 40 to 90% of their mass once in the animal.  To me that just sounds like fragmentation.

You're experiences please.

[bobcat]

I would NEVER use a Berger on elk or bison. No way. I've heard of people using them on elk. But I wouldn't trust them. I've shot a few deer and a bighorn sheep with Bergers out of my 270 Win. and they worked great. Even got exits twice on the sheep. I like them for their accuracy but I wouldn't trust them to penetrate an elk's shoulder.

[Stein]

I would NEVER use a Berger on elk or bison. No way. I've heard of people using them on elk. But I wouldn't trust them. I've shot a few deer and a bighorn sheep with Bergers out of my 270 Win. and they worked great. Even got exits twice on the sheep. I like them for their accuracy but I wouldn't trust them to penetrate an elk's shoulder.

 

I have way too few chances at an elk to trust something that isn't 100% proven.  I shoot Barnes TSX just due to the all copper feature but would also shoot Partitions or even Core Lokt if I needed to.  Maybe in 20 years another bullet will be proven better but I will be very late to that party.  Way, way too many sad stories on the Berger coming apart on elk.

[Bob33]

Other than monolithic bullets like Barnes, most bullets are designed to shed some of their weight. Nosler Partitions are designed to shed 30 to 35% of their weight. The intended benefit is secondary projectiles from the shed bullet pieces which can result in a quicker death.

I don't like the design of Berger bullets for hunting big game, but people that use them seem to swear by them.

[BULLBLASTER]

I have no issue at all shooting elk with a Berger... done it plenty of times.
Saw a 140 Berger smash a 330 bull at 980 yards last fall. 
They work fine

[jdb]

Bullblaster can I ask where the shot placement was?

[BULLBLASTER]

Bullblaster can I ask where the shot placement was?

Broadside rear lungs and liver. It was behind the shoulder

[BULLBLASTER]

Here is a pic that shows placement. It was coachcw bull from Colorado.
The second pic is a buck I killed at 677 yards with a 215 hybrid. Entrance side. Exit side was 2-3 inch hole.

[Goshawk]

That's a lot of distance to slow down back to mushrooming speed.  Easily 90% of every big game animal I shoot is under 200 yards, with 75- being the normal year to year range.

Perhaps that's a factor I'm missing.  Long range performance that puts the bullet back under fragmentation speed, vs a close in shot on a deep woods bull.

[BULLBLASTER]

That's a lot of distance to slow down back to mushrooming speed.  Easily 90% of every big game animal I shoot is under 200 yards, with 75- being the normal year to year range.

Perhaps that's a factor I'm missing.  Long range performance that puts the bullet back under fragmentation speed, vs a close in shot on a deep woods bull.

Yes, if I knew going in that I would have closer shots I wouldn’t likely use the bergers. I haven’t had them fail and cost me an animal, but things can get pretty ugly up close and high velocity. Unfortunately there isn’t a bullet in my opinion that will do it all perfectly. Bergers work for my needs but I understand that not everyone wants the same as I do.

[carpsniperg2]

I would stay away from them based on what you just said.
Long range slower velocity they do great close range fast velocity impacts. Have had very very poor results for me and family members. They blow up and do not get the penitration at high speed. My cousin shot a bull with 190 Berger multiple times from 200-50 yards 2 barley got any chunks of bullets into the organs. If it had been accubonds the first one would have probably laid him over. I shot a couple deer with them close was nasty and poor preformance. 300+ saw better results.

I have been dumping a lot of critters with the eldx. 15+ now since they come out. From 50-500 I have been super happy and I’m a pretty die hard accubond guy.
The accubond at your ranges and further if you not chasing a huge bc will be a great choice.

[duckmen1]

We have never shot an elk with them. We have shot 3 deer. 2 deer dropped in there tracks 1 went 10 yards or so. Shots were 25 to 175 yards broadside all behind the shoulder. Bullets shreaded most there weight. This is the result with the entry just under the skin on entrance side. So yeah when it comes to squaring up an elk shoulder I'd be leary.

[Oh Mah]

What chambering is this from? 

[duckmen1]

That particular pic was from 168 grain bergers out of a 300 wsm going around 2950 to 3000 fps. Have had 270 win with 140s going 2900 with very similar results.

[jasnt]

I've never had a Berger fail to kill. I'm no shoulder puncher I'm more of a vitals guy.  Every game animal I've taken with them has been under 200 yards and many in bow range.  Unfortunately I've never had the oppertunity to shoot elk.  This bear I took at 150 yards. Bullet went in behind the her right shoulder and exited out her left neck just behind the jaw bone. Broke ribs on entrance and just before exit and still passed through. You could run following the blood trail which went 40 yards through thick hawthorns. Bullet was 105gr vld @2950ish

Taken many bear and deer with bergers both from 243 and 300 win mag.  If you must bust shoulders stick with your AB's. I'll stick to what works well for me