When should you consider “all hope is lost?”

[hunter399]

Excuse my ignorance but are y’all saying that PREDATORS ARE THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM WITH WASHINGTON HUNTING/GAME MANAGEMENT??
There has been a lot of call for us to “do something” over the past 5 years, 10 years? But we never seem to organize well and while some of us make great efforts to express our thoughts and opinions to WDFW and some of use make a effort and some of us make no effort...it doesn’t seems like meaningful change has happened? Save some small examples that people could come up with, am I right?
So...my thought is that we start a campaign based on controlling predators? Bueno? Like WE.
Like all of US.
Like together.
Unified.
In a circle.
With a drum.
With our congressmen.
With our local biologists.

Many people ask “what can we/I do?”
Well Bearpaw...is the one most productive thing/message that we could unify around controlling predators?
Does almost everyone agree?
If so...let’s do it!!

What we really need is a Bio that cares more about the Future of Washington hunting than his job.  I'm certainly all in if there's something we can do to apply pressure on OTC spring bear, hound hunting, etc...

Until then I'll keep supporting "The foundation for Wildlife Management" as they're making a real difference right across the border in Idaho.

I like the idea ,to ban together as hunters for some change .But two things would have to happen,
1) we have to agree on changes we want as hunters
2)A large amount of hunters would have to not buy a licence ,permit,nothing for one year.

Only thing they care about is money, the only way wdfw would listen is to lose money,that comment period before rule changes what a joke.

[jmscon]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

[buglebrush]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

NO.  However, when we are in a clear predator pit, and the Bio's aren't raising a stink about WDFW's lack of aggressive predator management it's obvious where their priorities are.

[jmscon]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

NO.  However, when we are in a clear predator pit, and the Bio's aren't raising a stink about WDFW's lack of aggressive predator management it's obvious where their priorities are.

The bios pushed for and the commission approved an increase in the cougar quota in a couple of areas and the governor blocked it.

One thing a guy could do is sent the governor a well worded email telling him to let the bios do their jobs. Call the regional biologist and ask questions, why the reduction in tags, what can a person do to help the herd, etc.

[hunter399]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

I bet if no one bought a hunting licence for one year,a lot of changes would happen,bio might rethink about there job a lot more.

[buglebrush]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

I bet if no one bought a hunting licence for one year,a lot of changes would happen,bio might rethink about there job a lot more.

I'd do this in a heartbeat, but not many actually would.  Too many people would just welcome the opportunity to hunt with less pressure. 

[Special T]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

NO.  However, when we are in a clear predator pit, and the Bio's aren't raising a stink about WDFW's lack of aggressive predator management it's obvious where their priorities are.

The bios pushed for and the commission approved an increase in the cougar quota in a couple of areas and the governor blocked it.

One thing a guy could do is sent the governor a well worded email telling him to let the bios do their jobs. Call the regional biologist and ask questions, why the reduction in tags, what can a person do to help the herd, etc.

The point that the Governors role in this should be highlighted. Sportsmen suffer from the outside influences in politics. Much of the protection of predators comes from these politicians. Add to this the complexity of tribes and thier contributions of $ to these same folks makes the department's job more complex.

If sportsmen spoke on with a more unified voice it would eliminate a bunch of complexity in thier job. I'm not saying that  all the WDFW employees are friends of sportsmen, but the reality is much different than the idealism.  Saying a bio should do what's good for the herd or quit doesn't really solve much. You have to play the game to win, and most sportsmen are doing a horable job of playing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[buglebrush]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

NO.  However, when we are in a clear predator pit, and the Bio's aren't raising a stink about WDFW's lack of aggressive predator management it's obvious where their priorities are.

The bios pushed for and the commission approved an increase in the cougar quota in a couple of areas and the governor blocked it.

One thing a guy could do is sent the governor a well worded email telling him to let the bios do their jobs. Call the regional biologist and ask questions, why the reduction in tags, what can a person do to help the herd, etc.

The point that the Governors role in this should be highlighted. Sportsmen suffer from the outside influences in politics. Much of the protection of predators comes from these politicians. Add to this the complexity of tribes and thier contributions of $ to these same folks makes the department's job more complex.

If sportsmen spoke on with a more unified voice it would eliminate a bunch of complexity in thier job. I'm not saying that  all the WDFW employees are friends of sportsmen, but the reality is much different than the idealism.  Saying a bio should do what's good for the herd or quit doesn't really solve much. You have to play the game to win, and most sportsmen are doing a horable job of playing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

If I was a Bio I would go get interviews, and express my growing concern over the predator problem.  I would constantly educate people on what's going on, and how WDFW'S policies are completely against sound predator Management. 

I'm getting a little sick of the excuses, and the attitude that hunters need to limit their opportunities so that the herds can handle the increased predators.

[jasnt]

I won't stop hunting wa because I can't afford to hunt out of state. But I have stopped buying elk tags. Bear and cougar and coyote is my main focus and I may not hunt deer this year either.  But I will not stop hunting predators in WA.  If more hunters spent the time they spend on deer and elk on cougar and bear we might be able to make a change. Remember cougar quotas only count in the late season.

[jmscon]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

NO.  However, when we are in a clear predator pit, and the Bio's aren't raising a stink about WDFW's lack of aggressive predator management it's obvious where their priorities are.

The bios pushed for and the commission approved an increase in the cougar quota in a couple of areas and the governor blocked it.

One thing a guy could do is sent the governor a well worded email telling him to let the bios do their jobs. Call the regional biologist and ask questions, why the reduction in tags, what can a person do to help the herd, etc.

The point that the Governors role in this should be highlighted. Sportsmen suffer from the outside influences in politics. Much of the protection of predators comes from these politicians. Add to this the complexity of tribes and thier contributions of $ to these same folks makes the department's job more complex.

If sportsmen spoke on with a more unified voice it would eliminate a bunch of complexity in thier job. I'm not saying that  all the WDFW employees are friends of sportsmen, but the reality is much different than the idealism.  Saying a bio should do what's good for the herd or quit doesn't really solve much. You have to play the game to win, and most sportsmen are doing a horable job of playing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

If I was a Bio I would go get interviews, and express my growing concern over the predator problem.  I would constantly educate people on what's going on, and how WDFW'S policies are completely against sound predator Management. 

I'm getting a little sick of the excuses, and the attitude that hunters need to limit their opportunities so that the herds can handle the increased predators.

What I’m trying to say is there is a lot of speculation of why the tags are reduced and the only people who have a clue are the bios working the herd. I’m not sure who is making excuses for the predators but I trust the bios to make a good decision for the herd, not for the hunters.

There has been a tough winter and some drought. Add to that, not a lot has been done for habitat except from wild fires in the last two summers, which is going to help carrying capacity, and yeah tags will get reduced. I am glad that they are doing something instead of doing nothing and, if the herd numbers are low, reduce the antlerless tags.

Everyone wants to blame everyone else but they won’t change their own ways by letting WDFW reduce tags to manage herds no matter the reason.

[buglebrush]

So let me get this straight,
WDFW biologists only care about their own jobs but if hunting and fishing ends they will be out of a job. And the bios reducing antlerless tags to try to manage the herds and boost numbers is the bios not doing their job. And those bios, who spend years in college studying wildlife, spend more time in the field studying herds and their interactions with other animals and their habitat than most of us do, know less about wildlife management than we do.
Huh

NO.  However, when we are in a clear predator pit, and the Bio's aren't raising a stink about WDFW's lack of aggressive predator management it's obvious where their priorities are.

The bios pushed for and the commission approved an increase in the cougar quota in a couple of areas and the governor blocked it.

One thing a guy could do is sent the governor a well worded email telling him to let the bios do their jobs. Call the regional biologist and ask questions, why the reduction in tags, what can a person do to help the herd, etc.

The point that the Governors role in this should be highlighted. Sportsmen suffer from the outside influences in politics. Much of the protection of predators comes from these politicians. Add to this the complexity of tribes and thier contributions of $ to these same folks makes the department's job more complex.

If sportsmen spoke on with a more unified voice it would eliminate a bunch of complexity in thier job. I'm not saying that  all the WDFW employees are friends of sportsmen, but the reality is much different than the idealism.  Saying a bio should do what's good for the herd or quit doesn't really solve much. You have to play the game to win, and most sportsmen are doing a horable job of playing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

If I was a Bio I would go get interviews, and express my growing concern over the predator problem.  I would constantly educate people on what's going on, and how WDFW'S policies are completely against sound predator Management. 

I'm getting a little sick of the excuses, and the attitude that hunters need to limit their opportunities so that the herds can handle the increased predators.

What I’m trying to say is there is a lot of speculation of why the tags are reduced and the only people who have a clue are the bios working the herd. I’m not sure who is making excuses for the predators but I trust the bios to make a good decision for the herd, not for the hunters.

There has been a tough winter and some drought. Add to that, not a lot has been done for habitat except from wild fires in the last two summers, which is going to help carrying capacity, and yeah tags will get reduced. I am glad that they are doing something instead of doing nothing and, if the herd numbers are low, reduce the antlerless tags.

Everyone wants to blame everyone else but they won’t change their own ways by letting WDFW reduce tags to manage herds no matter the reason.

Actually everyone wants to blame everything else except the real culprit which is over-predation.  What's so incredibly frustrating is when people think that hunters should just roll over and accept lost opportunity due to over-predation.  Especially when the unreasonably high and growing predator numbers are a direct result of WDFW's management.  Don't you understand that when reducing hunter harvest is always the answer, rather than increasing predator harvest we are truly in a hopeless scenario?  That's what this thread is about, but maybe being from Seattle you haven't fully experienced the predator pit like we in the NE have. 

Listen to this podcast about efforts being made in Idaho.  http://averyadventures.com/41-justin-webb/

Can you imagine the difference that would be made if Washington would look at the issue this way?  I still say the Bio's need to grow a pair or OTC hunting is going to be a thing of the past in this state, and as success rates and opportunities dwindle future hunter recruitment will dwindle.  It's a vicious cycle. 

[Special T]

I won't stop hunting wa because I can't afford to hunt out of state. But I have stopped buying elk tags. Bear and cougar and coyote is my main focus and I may not hunt deer this year either.  But I will not stop hunting predators in WA.  If more hunters spent the time they spend on deer and elk on cougar and bear we might be able to make a change. Remember cougar quotas only count in the late season.

I belive that in some way this is where we need to make a push. Largely because it is the within our control. Granted there are issues relating to cougar quotas and not enough spring bear seasons, but there are huge areas that don't come anywhere near the harvest caps.

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[jasnt]

I won't stop hunting wa because I can't afford to hunt out of state. But I have stopped buying elk tags. Bear and cougar and coyote is my main focus and I may not hunt deer this year either.  But I will not stop hunting predators in WA.  If more hunters spent the time they spend on deer and elk on cougar and bear we might be able to make a change. Remember cougar quotas only count in the late season.

I belive that in some way this is where we need to make a push. Largely because it is the within our control. Granted there are issues relating to cougar quotas and not enough spring bear seasons, but there are huge areas that don't come anywhere near the harvest caps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

dosent matter how many cougar are killed in any gmu until late season starts.  If more folks actually stopped hunting deer and elk and focused solely on predators we could deff make a difference!  No one wants to hear it but it's true.  Give our deer and elk a year off and get after those predators folks.  You can sit and complain all you want but it's one way we can make a difference, we don't have the numbers to be heard in a state full of anti hunters. But we do have the numbers to control bear and cats and k9's if we put some effort into doing so.

[buglebrush]

I won't stop hunting wa because I can't afford to hunt out of state. But I have stopped buying elk tags. Bear and cougar and coyote is my main focus and I may not hunt deer this year either.  But I will not stop hunting predators in WA.  If more hunters spent the time they spend on deer and elk on cougar and bear we might be able to make a change. Remember cougar quotas only count in the late season.

I belive that in some way this is where we need to make a push. Largely because it is the within our control. Granted there are issues relating to cougar quotas and not enough spring bear seasons, but there are huge areas that don't come anywhere near the harvest caps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

dosent matter how many cougar are killed in any gmu until late season starts.  If more folks actually stopped hunting deer and elk and focused solely on predators we could deff make a difference!  No one wants to hear it but it's true.  Give our deer and elk a year off and get after those predators folks.  You can sit and complain all you want but it's one way we can make a difference, we don't have the numbers to be heard in a state full of anti hunters. But we do have the numbers to control bear and cats and k9's if we put some effort into doing so.

I'm all for it, but the fact remains that without Hounds any serious reduction in the lion population isn't likely.  Same goes for OTC Spring bear.  And of course we can't do anything about wolves in WA. 

In other news wouldn't it be terrible if hunters all started carrying a pound of Xylitol and dumping it on their gut piles!  It's extremely toxic to all canines; and perfectly safe for Humans, bears, etc...  I mention this, because if someone didn't know that it's toxic they may sweeten their gut-pile and not realize that if a wolf or coyote eats it he'll die! 

[jasnt]

Why does it have to be spring bear? Fall bear kill fawns and calves.... The next spring?  Coyotes kill a lot of deer in my area. Seen it many times. As for cougar I see several every year. I see cat sign on every ground I hunt and trap. If half the folks out there turned their focus to the predators for a year or so I think you would be surprised how many hit the dirt.  We can make excuses all we want but how many of use are actually out there controlling predators? Or even making an effort. I'd say very few just by looking at number of tags sold