When should you consider “all hope is lost?”

[bearpaw]

   x2

With a declining elk herd the only responsible thing to do is reduce antlerless tags. Antlerless tags are used by all F&G Depts to reduce herd size or prevent herd growth. If you want to roast WDFW at least do it for something WDFW is doing wrong. 

[Backstraps]

We had record numbers of elk in Yakima county until WDFW went full retard and issued thousands of cow tags for muzzy and rifle.  Top that off with otc cows early and late archery.  Then big winter of 2016 and all of a sudden we go from like 13k animals to 8k.  Well duh!!!! 

That said, herds will always spike and fall.  To say the sky is falling and there's no hope is silly.  It's a breeding renewable resource folks.
 ......... AND CONTROL THE DAMN PREDATORS!!! Karl, did you see that video of that bull elk surrounded by a pack of wolves a couple weeks ago? 

[CarbonHunter]

If it’s about the predators when it comes to the decline of the elk numbers and the deer numbers in the Yakima area, why does the WDFW shutdown cougar hunting in January every year stating the quota has been met?  We see it, a recent Muckleshoot mule deer survey points to it as a problem, yet the state continues to limit the ability of hunters to reduce predators in the area.

[Ridgeratt]

Today's Spokesman review.

Speaks about the decrease in youth hunters and then the WDFW goals for management.


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/apr/21/rich-landers-lucky-hunter-proud-to-be-one-of-the-f/#/0


This is the cash strapped answer




http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/apr/22/fewer-hunters-stretch-washingtons-already-tight-wi/#/0


There's another article about the aerial surveys only show 3 female Caribou. So maybe too little too late.   

 

[bearpaw]

More revealing data, what is different between Idaho and Washington?
Predator management is definitely one answer to that question!

Washington sees new low in deer harvest numbers, Idaho above average
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/apr/20/washington-sees-new-low-in-deer-harvest-numbers-id/

[Mudman]

Can anybody name a unit with increasing elk #'s over last 5-10 years?

418, 437, 426, 448

Can anybody name a unit with increasing elk #'s over last 5-10 years?  To me it started years ago with the elk around Pe ell area and then to Winston St helens and on and on.  Only places I see increase was around the private and town areas.        Are those the Skagit units??    Metro elk?  The article above posted sums it all up well.  $ increase coming just like I said.  Tell me HOW #'s are down when access is down and less hunters are in the woods??  That should say it all.  That's how my backwards logic functions.  WDFW, Predators, Gov office and their Libs.  This is very simple math and I do not see how anyone could argue otherwise honestly?

[Peewee]

They opened up a ton of cow killin in capitol forest n the huntin already sucks there, why?

[buglebrush]

Predators.  Predators.  Predators.  That's it.  Until they allow us to aggressively manage them there really is no long term hope.  Everything else is just window dressing.  Herds can only sustain so much harvest, and WDFW'S policy's ensure that predators are taking more and more of hunter's share.

[fish vacuum]

Can anybody name a unit with increasing elk #'s over last 5-10 years?

418, 437, 426, 448

  Only places I see increase was around the private and town areas.        Are those the Skagit units??    Metro elk? 

Those units cover most of the ground from hwy 2 to the Canadian border. I've been seeing elk and getting trail cam pictures of elk in places they haven't been before in my lifetime.
418 is open by permit only. I think 448 has a general season but effort (and success) are very minimal. I believe that's because the elk in 448 are only in small pockets at the edges of the GMU where they move in and out.

[DOUBLELUNG]

All hope is not lost, numbers will go up and down overtime.  But I don’t believe it will be as good as it has been, too many predators. Laws like no baiting and no hounds for bear and cougar has make a big impact.  Now we add wolves and possibly grizzlys in the future.  Our numbers will probably continue to drop, lets hope for not too much longer but the wolf numbers have to increase before the anti’s are happy.

Nailed the trend, there will be peaks and troughs, but over time the peaks will be lower, as will the troughs.  Carnivores and carnivore management plays a role, but habitat loss and human population growth play a huge role too.  A lot of the agricultural and silvicultural practices used today are far less productive of game than older practices.  It's not just conversion to housing and urbanization, but those drive down the game populations too.  Then there's weeds, exotic diseases ... increasing human population is rarely beneficial for game.

[CarbonHunter]

More revealing data, what is different between Idaho and Washington?
Predator management is definitely one answer to that question!

Washington sees new low in deer harvest numbers, Idaho above average
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/apr/20/washington-sees-new-low-in-deer-harvest-numbers-id/

Idaho is still having their own struggles with predators but it shows predators don’t mean the end of your deer and elk numbers. Idaho has a management plan that is leading to increasing herd numbers but they are still having areas that aren’t what they used to be. A lot of the elk in areas of Idaho that is infested with wolves have moved down to more open ground. In Washington when they try to move down they either find a housing development or a farm that they aren’t welcome on.

[Mr Mykiss]

Excuse my ignorance but are y’all saying that PREDATORS ARE THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM WITH WASHINGTON HUNTING/GAME MANAGEMENT??
There has been a lot of call for us to “do something” over the past 5 years, 10 years? But we never seem to organize well and while some of us make great efforts to express our thoughts and opinions to WDFW and some of use make a effort and some of us make no effort...it doesn’t seems like meaningful change has happened? Save some small examples that people could come up with, am I right?
So...my thought is that we start a campaign based on controlling predators? Bueno? Like WE.
Like all of US.
Like together.
Unified.
In a circle.
With a drum.
With our congressmen.
With our local biologists.

Many people ask “what can we/I do?”
Well Bearpaw...is the one most productive thing/message that we could unify around controlling predators?
Does almost everyone agree?
If so...let’s do it!!

[Skyvalhunter]

I did comment during the open comment period about this. Then when I went in and viewed the comments there were very few about this topic. So I guess people would rather just bitch about it than make an effort which is fine. But you really have no legs to stand on if you didn't make an effort.

[buglebrush]

I did comment during the open comment period about this. Then when I went in and viewed the comments there were very few about this topic. So I guess people would rather just bitch about it than make an effort which is fine. But you really have no legs to stand on if you didn't make an effort.

I commented extensively on it as well. 

[buglebrush]

Excuse my ignorance but are y’all saying that PREDATORS ARE THE NUMBER ONE PROBLEM WITH WASHINGTON HUNTING/GAME MANAGEMENT??
There has been a lot of call for us to “do something” over the past 5 years, 10 years? But we never seem to organize well and while some of us make great efforts to express our thoughts and opinions to WDFW and some of use make a effort and some of us make no effort...it doesn’t seems like meaningful change has happened? Save some small examples that people could come up with, am I right?
So...my thought is that we start a campaign based on controlling predators? Bueno? Like WE.
Like all of US.
Like together.
Unified.
In a circle.
With a drum.
With our congressmen.
With our local biologists.

Many people ask “what can we/I do?”
Well Bearpaw...is the one most productive thing/message that we could unify around controlling predators?
Does almost everyone agree?
If so...let’s do it!!

What we really need is a Bio that cares more about the Future of Washington hunting than his job.  I'm certainly all in if there's something we can do to apply pressure on OTC spring bear, hound hunting, etc...

Until then I'll keep supporting "The foundation for Wildlife Management" as they're making a real difference right across the border in Idaho.