Stung by UPS/Ebay

[Stein]

So, I found a new way get the short end of the stick from UPS.  I ordered an item off eBay from a seller with a very good feedback profile.  They ended up drop shipping it from Amazon (ordered with their account and had it shipped to me).  UPS delivers it somewhere, but not at my house.  I have their online account and was notified it would be delivered the next day and we happened to be home all day - it never came.  Not a huge surprise as we get probably 6 packages a year delivered to the wrong house.

So, I contact seller and let them know what is going on.  They say tough, it says delivered, don't bother me.  I call UPS and they say the original shipper has to contact them or they won't lift a finger.  I can't talk to the driver or anything.  I call Amazon, they have the order on their screen but won't do anything unless the seller contacts them.  I contact seller again, saying I'm not asking for a refund or replacement, just for them to go to their Amazon account and click the button that says the item didn't arrive.  Again, seller won't do anything.

So, I file a claim with eBay, they instantly side with seller and close the claim.  There is no way to appeal or talk to a human, they simply deny my refund - which I never asked for.  As a bonus, it won't post my negative feeedback, apparently they limit feedback when you aren't happy.  As a last ditch effort, I call the bank and since I happened to use a debit, no dice.  Even with a credit card, with the seller having delivery confirmation they won't budge.

Somebody has my item and I'm out a little over $100.  The most frustrating thing is that I don't know how to prevent it other than not buying stuff off of eBay.

Here is an update on the process and result so far:

Seller - Basically said pound sand, won't lift a finger.
UPS - Tried to file a claim, claim was cancelled since I was the recipient, not seller.  There is no way to figure out who the driver was to contact them directly (we have many in our area).
Amazon - Since it wasn't my account, they refused to either contact UPS or open a claim.
eBay - Claim opened, then denied with no reason or any communication or questions.  I tried to get them to have the seller file a claim with Amazon, they sent form denial saying no refund will be issued.
Debit Card Bank - First call no progress.  Second call resulted in claim being opened.  They didn't ask for any documentation, receipts, e-mail communication or anything else.
Paypal - Waiting to see what happens with the bank, probably my last moderately easy option.

[Skillet]

Only satisfaction you can get is to leave negative feedback for the seller.  UPS makes it a PIA for the seller (and the seller also has to deal with Amazon, so even more frustrationn) to get refunded so they can ship you a new one if it goes that route.  That's by design, to discourage claims. 

Seller has probably decided your potentially negative feedback isn't incentive enough to start the processes on your behalf.

Not any kind of satisfactory outcome, but it is what it is

[Sitka_Blacktail]

So basically legalized thievery.

[Fl0und3rz]

The most frustrating thing is that I don't know how to prevent it other than not buying stuff off of eBay.

That and use credit card.  The chargeback is the only leverage you have over seller in this instance, which you need to act on your behalf.  You say the CC Co. won't do it.  Change CC Cos.

Also be on the lookout for class actions and make a claim.  This type of stuff can go on for some time.  But ultimately enough people are screwed that attorneys take notice and get on the gravy train.

Sorry to hear and thanks for the heads up.

[kselkhunter]

The ebay phone number to file an appeal is 866-540-3329?  Are they just not answering the phone or ?

[Stein]

Anyone ever try or hear of someone bringing a small claims suit against UPS?  My guess is they wouldn't show up, but probably are protected somehow in their contracts or that I have no standing since I'm not the one that contracted with them to ship.

[Stein]

The ebay phone number to file an appeal is 866-540-3329?  Are they just not answering the phone or ?

It's pretty cut and dry, there are many, many cases just like this and if there is a delivery confirmation they absolutely always rule in favor of the seller.  The problem is you file a claim for a refund, you can't file a claim to force the seller to click a button in their Amazon account.

[Skyvalhunter]

That stinks

[buckcanyonlodge]

Did you use Pay Pal. If you did file a claim...they will withhold the funds from the seller until it is solved.

[Stein]

Did you use Pay Pal. If you did file a claim...they will withhold the funds from the seller until it is solved.

Paypal points you back to eBay to file the claim, they are the same company.  I always use a card through Paypal thinking that provided me the most levels of protection.

[bigdave]

I don't use ebay......too many "professional" ebayers out there willing to take the negs because their volume will cancel it out.

[762Armo]

As a last ditch effort, I call the bank and since I happened to use a debit, no dice.

Did they actually file the claim for you, or said it won't be approved and didn't bother filing the claim?

[biggfish]

Did you use Pay Pal. If you did file a claim...they will withhold the funds from the seller until it is solved.

Paypal points you back to eBay to file the claim, they are the same company.  I always use a card through Paypal thinking that provided me the most levels of protection.

Ebay and PayPal are separate companies, they used to be affiliated but no longer. EBay is actually dripping PayPal as a payment method.

Sent from my LG-K425 using Tapatalk

[Stein]

As a last ditch effort, I call the bank and since I happened to use a debit, no dice.

Did they actually file the claim for you, or said it won't be approved and didn't bother filing the claim?

I called back and pushed the issue and got a claim filed.  I don't have much hope, but we'll see.  The story is getting pretty complicated the further I get from the transaction and not much fun to try to explain - I used your bank's debit card to pay Paypal who paid an Ebay dude who ordered an item from Amazon that gave it to UPS who then delivered it to the wrong house.

[Stein]

Did you use Pay Pal. If you did file a claim...they will withhold the funds from the seller until it is solved.

Paypal points you back to eBay to file the claim, they are the same company.  I always use a card through Paypal thinking that provided me the most levels of protection.

Ebay and PayPal are separate companies, they used to be affiliated but no longer. EBay is actually dripping PayPal as a payment method.

Sent from my LG-K425 using Tapatalk

Huh, didn't know that.  When I open that transaction in my PayPal account, there is a link to file a claim and it goes back to eBay.  I'll have to check to see if there is another way, it isn't advertised for sure.

EDIT:  Looks like there is a separate process, I'm thinking I will wait to see what happens with the bank and then go to PayPal if that doesn't work.  If nothing else, the seller gets to handle a bunch of paperwork.

[pianoman9701]

Never use PayPal and never use your debit card online for anything, ever. Always use a credit card and if possible, a preferred credit card, like Chase Sapphire. Seller doesn't want to take care of you? Your charges get reversed immediately.

Also, never use a debit card online for anything, ever, period. If the company you use it with is shady or gets hacked and your account is cleaned out, it'll take weeks to get your own money back. Using a credit card keeps your bank accounts safe and when you call the institution to report your credit card stolen, it doesn't affect your cash, your checking account, or your savings. They just take the charges off of the credit card and issue you a new one.

[baker5150]

Never use PayPal and never use your debit card online for anything, ever. Always use a credit card and if possible, a preferred credit card, like Chase Sapphire. Seller doesn't want to take care of you? Your charges get reversed immediately.

Also, never use a debit card online for anything, ever, period. If the company you use it with is shady or gets hacked and your account is cleaned out, it'll take weeks to get your own money back. Using a credit card keeps your bank accounts safe and when you call the institution to report your credit card stolen, it doesn't affect your cash, your checking account, or your savings. They just take the charges off of the credit card and issue you a new one.

What's the issue with using PayPal?

[Buzz2401]

I use my credit card through Paypal well over 100 times a year for the last 20 years with never an issue.  Buy about 30 things off ebay a year for last 20 years and have had 2 issues that I ended up taking the loss.  Tell UPS that you want everything that comes to your house signed for with ID.

[carpsniperg2]

I have done hundreds and hundreds of transactions with ebay and PayPal. PayPal is easy even though they are very anti gun. Only time I have had problems with them is when firearm related items are paid for. They will close your account and keep your money.

Only time I have had problems on eBay in many years is just like you. These sellers listing items from amazon they don’t have in possession or don’t know. Then something shows up other then what was listed or gets lost then it big problems. If it’s anything over like 20.00 I send the seller a message asking if they physically have the item. No response or not in there hands I don’t buy. Haven’t had a problem since I learned just like what you had happen.

[Encore 280]

Maybe there's another address close to the same as yours and it went there. Punch your address into Maps or your GPS and see one close to yours comes up. I know when I'm putting an address into my GPS there's others that show up too. Just a thought. Good luck.

[pianoman9701]

Never use PayPal and never use your debit card online for anything, ever. Always use a credit card and if possible, a preferred credit card, like Chase Sapphire. Seller doesn't want to take care of you? Your charges get reversed immediately.

Also, never use a debit card online for anything, ever, period. If the company you use it with is shady or gets hacked and your account is cleaned out, it'll take weeks to get your own money back. Using a credit card keeps your bank accounts safe and when you call the institution to report your credit card stolen, it doesn't affect your cash, your checking account, or your savings. They just take the charges off of the credit card and issue you a new one.

What's the issue with using PayPal?

They defer to the seller's platform, Ebay in this case. It's all in Stein's story. If you pay directly, your credit card company is YOUR advocate in disputes. PayPal is not.

[pianoman9701]

I do occasionally use PayPal, but it's mostly for sending money to people I know or companies with which I've got a relationship. For regular internet commerce, it's like creating an extra step. In addition, if you pay it directly out of your bank account, you run the risk of them getting hacked and you losing all of your money. I know they've never had a problem before. There have been many firsts for many big companies in this regard.

[baker5150]

Never use PayPal and never use your debit card online for anything, ever. Always use a credit card and if possible, a preferred credit card, like Chase Sapphire. Seller doesn't want to take care of you? Your charges get reversed immediately.

Also, never use a debit card online for anything, ever, period. If the company you use it with is shady or gets hacked and your account is cleaned out, it'll take weeks to get your own money back. Using a credit card keeps your bank accounts safe and when you call the institution to report your credit card stolen, it doesn't affect your cash, your checking account, or your savings. They just take the charges off of the credit card and issue you a new one.

What's the issue with using PayPal?

They defer to the seller's platform, Ebay in this case. It's all in Stein's story. If you pay directly, your credit card company is YOUR advocate in disputes. PayPal is not.

Paypal will at least put a hold on the funds. 

[pianoman9701]

Not in this case, according to Stein. 

[Fl0und3rz]

Always use a credit card and if possible, a preferred credit card, like Chase Sapphire. Seller doesn't want to take care of you? Your charges get reversed immediately.

I would never recommend Chase.  With any credit card with the Visa or Mastercard processing network, used as a credit card at the POS, you should be able to avail yourself of the chargeback feature of credit accounts. 

The chargeback is not available on debit accounts.  It is not a feature of a particular bank.  BECU does it just the same as Chase.  Where they might differ is in their institutional willingness to help you through the process.  Perhaps with a preferred card at Chase, they won't give you the runaround.  I don't get a runaround with BECU.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/credit-card-chargebacks/

Also, never use a debit card online for anything, ever, period. If the company you use it with is shady or gets hacked and your account is cleaned out, it'll take weeks to get your own money back. Using a credit card keeps your bank accounts safe and when you call the institution to report your credit card stolen, it doesn't affect your cash, your checking account, or your savings. They just take the charges off of the credit card and issue you a new one.

Again, BECU shines here.  The wife has had to have numerous cards issued due to attempted fraudulent charges - most likely due to POS transactions in Seattle.  BECU has immediately identified fraudulent activity, often before we do, the process is quick and relatively painless, and never are any of our funds in jeopardy and are available at all times during the rectification.  Their fraud detection measures are pretty sophisticated, and their customer service is top notch.

[pianoman9701]

It doesn't matter which card you use, as long as it's a credit, not debit card. I'm glad your experience with BECU is a good one. 

[Fl0und3rz]

Yeah I am kind of vegan for BECU.  Sorry for the thread jack.

[Stein]

I would argue that it does matter what credit card company you use.  I have had several fraud/stolen identity/stolen numbers in the past, maybe 3-4 and they were with several banks.  The easiest was Skagit State Bank, I told them, they laughed at the charges (airline tickets out of strange countries), and they were removed.  No questions, no process for my part, just instantly removed and I never heard anything else.  Every time I have called them, I get a real person quickly and they know how to help and do so quickly.

With others, there has been much more involvement and some are hesitant to open a case.  This charge was with Chase and they were ok so far, I had one transfer to get to the right person, but they didn't seem overly knowledgeable about the process and weren't able to explain the computerized questions much so I had to guess at a few.  They at least sounded like they were in the US.  They did issue a temporary credit subject to review, but didn't have any info on what that review looks like, how long it takes, whether I can submit an explanatory statement, e-mails, etc or anything else.

There are federal guidelines and rules, but like any business, they can be easy or hard to deal with.  They can also choose to lean on one side or the other or even eat the loss themselves.  The rules are the minimum, my experience is they can do much more if they choose to.