Is there a better way to reduce cougar numbers?

[bigmacc]

Imagine the numbers for the first year on that hunters report if they brought back hounds.

The numbers would be huge and that alone would save a whole lot of deer and elk but not even close to getting the population under control to the point we would see a difference in our ungulate numbers, my idea would be a 3 year set up, like they do when setting up our game hunting seasons. When numbers get to the point that deer herds plummet, people are seeing cats under bridges, in backyards, in neighborhoods etc. etc. on increasing instances obviously there are problems with population control.When the population is booming as it is now bring back hound hunting for a 3 year block, still allow boot seasons but allow hound permits to be sold to actually put a dent into these growing numbers of cats.

[BreezyBear]

Increase quotas and make cougar season concurrent with bear season.  Here, bear opens August 1st, but cougar doesn't until September first.  Just plain stupid.   

[bearpaw]

You think there's only 20 females in 105?  I'd have guessed 100+

I used to hunt that unit all winter for cats, but obviously that was years ago, so I definitely do not know for sure, but it might be double what I said, I was being conservative so I didn't sound like a fanatic, but I doubt there are 100 females, but maybe 100 total cougar including females, males, and kittens.

I never did hear how many cats they confirmed in the 105 study area when they did the cougar study several years back, did you hear the number?

[rainshadow1]

Lloyd Beebe was a bounty houndsman in the Olympics back in the day. He took dozens and dozens out of the Olympic Peninsula every year, year after year. Never hurt the population. Never.

Back in the days of the "scorched earth" wildlife management era (post colonial eastern USA) they did have "Drives." Hundreds and hundreds of people, all the town would go out, set up in a 30 mile circle, and converge. They'd push cats. ("Puma" back then.) That's how they eradicated them from the East. Wolves too.

Cattle driving era was a shoot on sight policy, but was nothing to population control.

Hounds are the only thing that can keep them at bay. We're getting better with calls, but with the quotas, we'll never touch them. This government (as has been stated and stated and stated) is working dilligently to "manage" human beings out of the equasion. The predators are supposed to do our job. Hunters are being phased out.

It's intimidating to think about, Pastor Joel... but it's come to my mind several times over the past few years... there will be a time, and that time is. . . . soon . . . when we'll have to choose which laws we obey and which ones we just, well... 'never heard about.' Mostly has to do with living by the standard my wife and I have chosen to follow (which isn't the RCW) in schooling, defending, and raising our kids, but management of our natural resources can apply to that world view without any creativity, when you think it over.

[ctwiggs1]

Lloyd Beebe was a bounty houndsman in the Olympics back in the day. He took dozens and dozens out of the Olympic Peninsula every year, year after year. Never hurt the population. Never.

Back in the days of the "scorched earth" wildlife management era (post colonial eastern USA) they did have "Drives." Hundreds and hundreds of people, all the town would go out, set up in a 30 mile circle, and converge. They'd push cats. ("Puma" back then.) That's how they eradicated them from the East. Wolves too.

Cattle driving era was a shoot on sight policy, but was nothing to population control.

Hounds are the only thing that can keep them at bay. We're getting better with calls, but with the quotas, we'll never touch them. This government (as has been stated and stated and stated) is working diligently to "manage" human beings out of the equation. The predators are supposed to do our job. Hunters are being phased out.

It's intimidating to think about, Pastor Joel... but it's come to my mind several times over the past few years... there will be a time, and that time is. . . . soon . . . when we'll have to choose which laws we obey and which ones we just, well... 'never heard about.' Mostly has to do with living by the standard my wife and I have chosen to follow (which isn't the RCW) in schooling, defending, and raising our kids, but management of our natural resources can apply to that world view without any creativity, when you think it over.

4 years ago - before I had kids - I would have probably looked at this post and called you crazy.

Not so much now. 

Also, I have been trying to figure out how to phrase how I feel about wildlife management practice and I think you phrased it perfectly:

This government (as has been stated and stated and stated) is working diligently to "manage" human beings out of the equation. The predators are supposed to do our job. Hunters are being phased out.

[bearpaw]

Lloyd Beebe was a bounty houndsman in the Olympics back in the day. He took dozens and dozens out of the Olympic Peninsula every year, year after year. Never hurt the population. Never.

Back in the days of the "scorched earth" wildlife management era (post colonial eastern USA) they did have "Drives." Hundreds and hundreds of people, all the town would go out, set up in a 30 mile circle, and converge. They'd push cats. ("Puma" back then.) That's how they eradicated them from the East. Wolves too.

Cattle driving era was a shoot on sight policy, but was nothing to population control.

Hounds are the only thing that can keep them at bay. We're getting better with calls, but with the quotas, we'll never touch them. This government (as has been stated and stated and stated) is working diligently to "manage" human beings out of the equation. The predators are supposed to do our job. Hunters are being phased out.

It's intimidating to think about, Pastor Joel... but it's come to my mind several times over the past few years... there will be a time, and that time is. . . . soon . . . when we'll have to choose which laws we obey and which ones we just, well... 'never heard about.' Mostly has to do with living by the standard my wife and I have chosen to follow (which isn't the RCW) in schooling, defending, and raising our kids, but management of our natural resources can apply to that world view without any creativity, when you think it over.

4 years ago - before I had kids - I would have probably looked at this post and called you crazy.

Not so much now. 

Also, I have been trying to figure out how to phrase how I feel about wildlife management practice and I think you phrased it perfectly:

This government (as has been stated and stated and stated) is working diligently to "manage" human beings out of the equation. The predators are supposed to do our job. Hunters are being phased out.

Hunters are certainly being phased out of predator management. The goal of Wielgus' cougar management is for the WA cougar population to be self regulating. They have essentially accomplished that, cougar are probably killing themselves off more than hunters are participating with the ridiculous low quotas. We have as many cougar as the state can support. WDFW no longer exists to manage for recreational opportunity. The only way this can change is if politics in WA change dramatically, I don't see that happening with WA politics.

[Ridgeratt]

Here is a map of one they had collared during the study and she spent most of her time in Canada.

[rainshadow1]

Cougars always have killed WAY more of each other than humans have. ("COUGAR: Ecology & Conservation. Edited by Maurice Hornocker & Sharon Negri") To say that they're wanting the Lion population to self regulate is to switch management study entirely to the soon to be depredated stats of ungulates. When the deer and elk numbers are debilitated sufficiently, then the cat numbers will balance based on fatal territorial confrontations... and starvation. Plain and simple.

Absolutely true, Dale... but most people don't realize how BLINDLY STUPID that is!

[bearpaw]

   Especially stupid in a state that has plenty of livestock, pets, and humans running around in cougar habitat!


Ridgeratt, are you sure that isn't a map of a tom?

[Ridgeratt]

A 8 year old female. Just rechecked tooth data.

[bearpaw]

A 8 year old female. Just rechecked tooth data.

Thanks, she was a pretty wide ranging female!

[Ridgeratt]

A 8 year old female. Just rechecked tooth data.

Thanks, she was a pretty wide ranging female!

She probably wasn't counted in the state since she was a transit who crossed borders.   

[bearpaw]

A 8 year old female. Just rechecked tooth data.

Thanks, she was a pretty wide ranging female!

She probably wasn't counted in the state since she was a transit who crossed borders.   

  well we are a sanctuary state...

[ctwiggs1]

I call Bruce Richards telling me about a cougar collared in Issaquah that was later found around the Okanogan area.

Fairly impressive journey.

[Ridgeratt]

A 8 year old female. Just rechecked tooth data.

Thanks, she was a pretty wide ranging female!

She probably wasn't counted in the state since she was a transit who crossed borders.   

  well we are a sanctuary state...

And that explains the wolves up there as well.