Guided vs Unguided

[jjhunter]

Okay, after reading a BUNCH of posts on here, I have come to the conclusion that many hunters, not only on this site, but across the board, have a negative opinion of guided, private land hunts.  Negative?  Maybe that is not the right word?  How about, most hunters find a public land, self-guided trophy more fulfilling than one that they "paid for".  With this in mind, I pose a question:

Say I buy a landowner tag in CO unit 21 (3rd Season) or unit 70 (4th season) and hunt public land, unguided and kill a 190" (gross) deer every year (which is very possible).  Does that make me a great hunter just because I killed huge deer, unguided on public land?   My personal opinion is that it does not make you a good hunter, great hunter, or poor hunter.  I don't think it has anything to do with hunting expertise, nor should it add or take away from the fullfillment of harvesting a trophy animal.  For many, paying a guide is the only option to hunting a specific species or area.  Additionally, some guided hunts may provide the greatest physical or mental challenge (dall sheep, for example).  What about states like Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Colorado, Montana, where you can greatly increase the odds or guarantee the opportunity to hunt that state every year by using a guide?  For people who hunt Montana or Idaho, even though you may hunt public land, you are essentially doing the same thing that guides do: limiting the competition by "buying" the right to hunt where not everyone has the same opportunity.  EX:  Not everyone can afford to hunt Idaho, Montana, Oregon, etc.   

I have never been on a guided hunt myself, but I do not discredit the harvesting of trophy animals that are taken on these hunts.   If you take a trophy animal during normal shooting hours and in season, you should be proud of a great accomplishment regardless of how/when/where.

These are just a few random thoughts....curious to see what you all think?

[boneaddict]

I would say there is nothing wrong with a guided hunt.   I do think there should be more satisfaction iof you do it yourself.  Seems only logical to me if you do all the ground work and planning and such all on your own merit, adding satisfaction for every bit you put intothe hunt, like say handloading your own ammo.  I would think or at least to me, a trophy on the wall would mean more if I knew I got it myself and not because of a guides knowledge, his calling or whatever.  If someone would call my bull in for me and so forth and I killed it, I have no problem sharing the hunt, but its exactly that, the trophy is almost as much his.  Its pretty easy to pull the trigger if you know what I mean. 
I also don't think its a bad thing to hunt on a big open range ranch, now high fence thing is a bit of a different subject.  It comes down to what money can buy.  Again, not a level playing field.  Nothing wrong with the trophy at all.  Now to put it all into perspective, I have a lot more respect for someone like Cameron Haines who hunts a lot on his own back in the bush where we all can hunt, than I do for Guy Eastman who takes Daddies money and hunts on a private ranch where several guys have watched these animals all summer, know their habits, know what is available, and essentially shooting not quite but close to what might be someones pet.  And....then doing it everytime, and then make a living on selling "the hunt" to you.

Hope I was clear on my explanation and in answering your question. 

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

I have no issue, its not realistic fo rthe average guy to scout out of state all summer and then hunt, thats is what guides do, its not like you go on a guided hunt, and dont "hunt" and just kill.. on my guided back country idaho elk hunt I killed myself for a week in the thickest, steepest area I have ever been into, to have 1 decent and 1 almost chance on bulls.. if thats not hunting im not sure what is

[Craig]

I have been on two guides hunts. Both of them have been far from a cake walk and I had to work for the game I got. I think some people think if you go on a guided hunt you just walk up and shoot something. I like the DIY hunts just as much as anyone else. If. I ever draw a killer tag someplace and I can't scout I will use a guide if I could afford it.

[jjhunter]

I agree, Bone.    I personally like to do the research and hunt off my own back.  Especially in new locales and terrains that I do not have experience hunting in.  I am definitely with you on the challenge!  But, if I kill a 200" mule deer some day, it will be on either on a primo, limited draw tag, landowner tag, or guided hunt.  Any way it happens, I will be grinning from ear to ear.  As for Cameron, no competition - that guy is an animal!

[jjhunter]

I have no issue, its not realistic fo rthe average guy to scout out of state all summer and then hunt, thats is what guides do, its not like you go on a guided hunt, and dont "hunt" and just kill.. on my guided back country idaho elk hunt I killed myself for a week in the thickest, steepest area I have ever been into, to have 1 decent and 1 almost chance on bulls.. if thats not hunting im not sure what is

After 10 year of hunting N Idaho, I feel your pain!  No such thing as an easy trophy in that country!

[jackelope]

I don't think anyone can say what is rewarding and fulfilling to someone else. i've never been on a guided hunt, but i don't think it's good or bad to go guided. i also hunt private and public land. i hunt private because i can. is it still a challenge? is it thick and steep and gnarly in places? yep. the appeal of a pack string headed into the wilderness on an elk hunt is huge to me...i would love to do it someday, but will likely never have the stock of my own, so i would be happy hiring an outfitter and doing it that way.
it's just like fishing. i tie my own flies and feel a whole lot more satisfaction when i catch a fish on my own tie. i don't think it's wrong or right to fish with flies you tie yourself, in fact most of the flies in my boxes are store bought.

[Colville]

I guess we'd have to define this: "great accomplishment".

"you take a trophy animal during normal shooting hours and in season, you should be proud of a great accomplishment.."

That's where I disagree. I'm sure you'd agree that shooting elk at an elk ranch in legal shooting hours is not an accomplishment. I do think that guided public land, wilderness/nf etc hunts are hunting pressured game in rugged terrain. There's absolutely no guarantee of a kill, let alone a great animal on these hunts. You get some advice and direction but still have to make the climbs and scour the land to come up with your trophy. This is also true of a lot of private hunts where the size of the piece, the terrain and game pops still make a guy really work to get his chance, like on public land.

On the other hand some private land deals are dunks. There's little or no work involved. Un-pressured game often moving to and from predictable feed from agriculture or created feeding areas.  The hunter picks over numerous animals taking the time to debate the width/mass and score of numerous ones before deciding which he'll finally shoot. I don't think shooting straight is an accomplishment. I'm not saying that guy shouldn't be able to do this or that the land owner or guide shouldn't sell the right. It's just that being able to hit your target after picking exactly the one you want to kill with relatively little physical effort involved  just doesn't rate as much of an accomplishment to me. But you should be allowed to do it to your heats content if it works for you.

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

   well said colville.. I spent over 4k on my idaho hunt in unit 10, we hiked over 10 miles a day up and down terrain so steep you could lean forward and kiss the ground, the bulls shut up after day 3 and it was almost impossible after that. wemoved cam 3 times on mules for over 15 miles in the back country near the montana border.. that is hunting.. like you said the trophy ranch hunts or the easy no effort hunts are not for me, I think if you work for it, public or private land makes no diff, thats something to be proud of, scouting time, research and hard work pay off.....

[GoldTip]

I've been on two guided hunts in my lifetime, and will go on a few others, currently planning a Goat hunt in BC, my first two guided were Caribou in Quebec, where the guide sat in camp and said, "see that ridge over there?  They killed 4 bulls there last week."  The second was a Moose hunt in Alberta this past fall.  Now both were in Canada, and the next will be in Canada as well, where none of us have a real choice to go unguided.  

But, I have no qualms with someone who puts in every year and finally draws that New mexico big bull tag and hires an outfitter.  Would he probably be more satisfied with the hunt if he killed a 390 bull all on his own, I know I would, but it doesn't mean everyone else would?  Well some would and some wouldn't feel any more satisfaction with a DIY for that bull than if they did it guided.  Truly as long as it's legal, it doesn't matter to me.  Some just don't have the time to put into scouting another state, especially one that far away.  I say to each their own, as long as it's legal.

[jjhunter]

I don't think shooting straight is an accomplishment.

You obviously haven't seen some of my buddies shoot!  

I obviously wasn't talking about elk ranches, high fence, governor's tags, or even places like the Heaton Ranch.  I am just saying that  there is no such thing as a slam-dunk 400" bull or 200" deer shot legally during a regular, state-mandated season.   

[Coasthunterjay]

Well i really like your question.....This would be my 2 cents but thats what you wanted....heres what i think from my stand point.

I have been guiding big game animals for about eight years and for a well known outfitter for three years now and i can tell you that regardless or not every person i have ever guided has been proud of what they shot or even just the experiance they had with us....

I personnely hunt completely different properties on the oppisite side of the state than where i guide and i can say really the only benefit of guided hunts is for people who are very busy and just dont have enough time to scout out a property and to see if there property has potential game on it or not.

Scouting and finding properties that have good game can take years. I know this personnely myself.....took me several years to find the animals that i hunt and how they act.... As a guide we try to take the guessing out of the hunt. We make sure that all guys that are with us have a good time. For some people getting an animal is the only way they can have a good time, to others its just being there with us in the outdoors...... Good company, good stories, and a higher possability of getting a good animal, if not a trophy animal. Also in the mean time we raise there possability of getting an animal by allowing them to hunt several properties with alot of diffeent communities of animals......

Some guys actually just like the conversaion and the companionship they get with the guides and outfitters. But its all in the end when there leaving that you really know whether they had a good time or not....Most guys dont want to leave....i dont blame em. Sometimes i dont want the guys to leave also. We really have a good time!


Either way you should be proud of any animal you get...regardless of whether it was guided or not....it really just depends on the person who gets it....the bigger person is the one who doesnt get an animal and still has the time of there lives.
But then again...

[Buckrub]

I don't think shooting straight is an accomplishment.

You obviously haven't seen some of my buddies shoot!  

I obviously wasn't talking about elk ranches, high fence, governor's tags, or even places like the Heaton Ranch.  I am just saying that  there is no such thing as a slam-dunk 400" bull or 200" deer shot legally during a regular, state-mandated season.   

There is always the possibility of a trophy public land animal. Slam Dunk doesn't happen.
I have been on quite a few drop camps and guided hunts, some good and some a complete joke.
I don't hunt high fence hunts and haven't found any guided hunts that didn't involve some hard work and a bit of luck.

I see nothing wrong with guided hunts....high fence wouldn't be considered hunting and an animal doesn't qualify for a record book.

I have had some of my best hunts on drop camp wilderness hunts, self guided.

[jjhunter]

It is definitely interesting to me to hear from people who have gone self-guided, semi-guided, fully guided and guides themselves.  Great feed-back.   

Goldtip, I have some hunting videos that show BC goat hunts.  Those can be intense to say the least!

[boneaddict]

I had no idea you guided Coast.