Chemical Spraying

[LDennis24]

Ok Mudman...

https://www.newsweek.com/bee-death-scientists-warn-common-weed-killer-harming-honey-bees-1137103?amp=1

I'm very concerned about killing insects as they are what you would call a keystone species in so many ways! I do agree with you on the health of my family and children. I do not allow my son to play outside when the fields around the house are being sprayed and if I can smell it I know from working with it and taking classes... That means I'm ingesting it! 2-4-D as it's usually referred to is another one that's been used for years and years and they haven't determined if it's harmful to humans yet, aside from affecting sperm count and fertility in some studies. That being said, even after six years of using it I never missed a beat, if you know what I mean, getting my wife pregnant, and I have two very healthy and strong babies to show for it. I do believe that exposure over a certain limit may be harmful but doing what you do in a normal everyday routine you are not likely to have any detrimental effects from it. I always followed the safety guidelines and never held my children until I washed and changed my clothes. Because like I've said in my messages, they haven't shown proof "yet".

[WildlifeAssassin]

The Newsweek article talks about how glyphosate is destroying the microbiome of the honey bees. It is doing the same thing to humans, a disrupted microbiome/gut is implicated in nearly all autoimmune diseases, Parkinson’s, cancer and they are starting to suspect it is involved in Alzheimer’s. It isn’t out right poisonous, it negatively impacts the billions of bacteria and fungi that live in the gut that digest the food and make vitamins and minerals bio available during digestion. Once weakened the host becomes suseptible to disease and deficiencies.
It isn’t just honey bees either, native bees that coevolved with our native vegetation are disappearing at alarming rates. I suspect it has a similar effect on the animals we all love to hunt.
As to the issue of hoof rot WDFW is saying it is due to treponeme bacteria. This comes down to the soil, which is alive, a whole ecosystem beneath your feet. Spraying glyphosate disrupts the bacterial balance of the soil in this case allowing the treponeme bacteria to become overly prevalent, hence the hoof rot.

To the farmers and timber guys, I get it. The regulations are out of control, the whole system is designed to treat food and lumber as a commodity to be traded on Wall Street and sold to feed and house the billions in China and India. It’s a hard time to make an honest living in those fields. But there are other ways that work with nature rather than against it. Wood chips when used as mulch suppress weeds and are quickly broken down into really healthy soil, controlled burns quickly return nutrients into the soil and suppress weeds. Look into permaculture practices, people are willing to pay a lot more for food raised without these chemicals. I respect the work you guys do and I know society doesn’t give you the credit you deserve, please don’t take any of this as an attack on you, just a discussion to try to make the forest a better place with more healthy animals.

[singleshot12]

I could never really understand why people need scientific evidence in the first place to realize Glyphosate and it's evil additives are safe to the environment and life 
Plus anyone who is a true hunter should be totally against it. Anyone who has tried to hunt a clearcut after being sprayed knows it turns into a biological desert over night-with no critters for years to come.

[pianoman9701]

California says glyphosate causes cancer, I am sure all these deer and elk must have cancer now right or your going to get it from eating your harvest.


It isn’t even a restricted use pesticide. I wouldn’t worry about it. Just don’t be around when they are actively spraying... common sense

I think it is one of the pesticides the EU prohibits.  They also don't allow atrazine due to health findings, but timber companies spray it too.  The glyphosphate in the average American has doubled in about the last 30 years.

The EU has prohibited by Glyphosate and Atrazine, two chemicals abundantly sprayed on our clearcuts. One of the members of the Hoof Disease study group is a hired legal gun for pesticide manufacturers in liability lawsuits, Dr. Fairbrother. Timber companies and chemical companies work together to pad the pockets on both sides of the aisle to make sure nothing changes with regards to the poisoning of our flora and fauna. Writing to your representatives will only work if they haven't accepted donations from these groups. That narrows down their number considerably.

[W_Ellison2011]

I haven't had any issues finding healthy deer or a lot of healthy grouse in the Kapowsin area that Hancock owns... even after they sprayed...

[WildlifeAssassin]

I haven't had any issues finding healthy deer or a lot of healthy grouse in the Kapowsin area that Hancock owns... even after they sprayed...

Bacteria are not visible to the human eye. Game animals usually don’t live long enough to outright die or be visibly sick. The effects are accumulative, it will show up in later generations of game animals. We live roughly 10x longer, we’ll be the ones who pay the price. Herbicide, fungicide, pesticide, suicide all stem from the Latin word caedere - to kill. It’s called the web of life for a reason, it’s all connected. As the top of the food chain we have the highest bioaccumulation of any animal. And I’ll say it again, even if you don’t think the chemicals hurt the animals directly, it kills the herbaceous plants that they eat, making it a clear cut with no benefit to wildlife.

[LDennis24]

The Newsweek article talks about how glyphosate is destroying the microbiome of the honey bees. It is doing the same thing to humans, a disrupted microbiome/gut is implicated in nearly all autoimmune diseases, Parkinson’s, cancer and they are starting to suspect it is involved in Alzheimer’s. It isn’t out right poisonous, it negatively impacts the billions of bacteria and fungi that live in the gut that digest the food and make vitamins and minerals bio available during digestion. Once weakened the host becomes suseptible to disease and deficiencies.
It isn’t just honey bees either, native bees that coevolved with our native vegetation are disappearing at alarming rates. I suspect it has a similar effect on the animals we all love to hunt.
As to the issue of hoof rot WDFW is saying it is due to treponeme bacteria. This comes down to the soil, which is alive, a whole ecosystem beneath your feet. Spraying glyphosate disrupts the bacterial balance of the soil in this case allowing the treponeme bacteria to become overly prevalent, hence the hoof rot.

To the farmers and timber guys, I get it. The regulations are out of control, the whole system is designed to treat food and lumber as a commodity to be traded on Wall Street and sold to feed and house the billions in China and India. It’s a hard time to make an honest living in those fields. But there are other ways that work with nature rather than against it. Wood chips when used as mulch suppress weeds and are quickly broken down into really healthy soil, controlled burns quickly return nutrients into the soil and suppress weeds. Look into permaculture practices, people are willing to pay a lot more for food raised without these chemicals. I respect the work you guys do and I know society doesn’t give you the credit you deserve, please don’t take any of this as an attack on you, just a discussion to try to make the forest a better place with more healthy animals.

Once again you are saying that it's affecting ALL bacteria in the environment when NOTHING has been shown to support that. Your speculating... Bees are most likely affected because they feed directly on the pollen from the treated plants and I'm sure people are not out eating the glyphosate treated alfalfa in fields... Your wrong... This is from a study done to see if Glyphosate is affecting the soil microbes and it's quoted as "Glyphosate appeared to be directly and rapidly degraded by microbes, even at high application rates, without adversely affecting microbial activity." That tells me that it's not affecting the soil... Don't know where you get your info from but here you go:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232668121_Effect_of_Glyphosate_on_Soil_Microbial_Activity_and_Biomass

[Sandberm]

Ive probably filled my 4 gallon backpack sprayer over a thousand times with Glyphosphate and 2-4d. I'm still here. The farmers I know aren't dropping like flies.

The only issue I see with glyphosphate is plants becoming tolerant of it.

I suspect the jurors in that California case were swayed more by emotion then science. The poor black groundskeeper whos dying vs big bad Monsanto.

[LDennis24]

I think the "WEB" is the problem with people forming the wrong "facts" and opinions on things like pesticides in the first place... Microbes and bacteria are incredibly resilient. It's amazing how many different types there are and they are constantly cleaning the world without most people even noticing. I believe we will eventually find ones that can even break down radioactive byproducts. That would be amazing. I just did a job up at the Pend Oreille Mine in Metaline Falls and they have an underground reservoir that is full of microbes that literally purify the water that seeps into the mine and clean it of all solvents, oils, grease and diesel particulates and then it is cooled and pumped into the river again. Some of the harshest products you can imagine and a type of microbe can eat it! It's amazing...

[W_Ellison2011]

I think the "WEB" is the problem with people forming the wrong "facts" and opinions on things like pesticides in the first place... Microbes and bacteria are incredibly resilient. It's amazing how many different types there are and they are constantly cleaning the world without most people even noticing. I believe we will eventually find ones that can even break down radioactive byproducts. That would be amazing. I just did a job up at the Pend Oreille Mine in Metaline Falls and they have an underground reservoir that is full of microbes that literally purify the water that seeps into the mine and clean it of all solvents, oils, grease and diesel particulates and then it is cooled and pumped into the river again. Some of the harshest products you can imagine and a type of microbe can eat it! It's amazing...

Agreed. I also feel like people using the argument that they are seeing fewer and fewer animals are just not getting out of their trucks or going into places that people don't and rather than blaming themselves they would rather blame something else.

[LDennis24]

Yep, and as for things like grouse decline, well that's been happening my whole life and I don't think glyphosate was nearly as prevalent in 1990 even but the decline was still showing and just like the spotted owl, they blamed the logging industry and basically gutted it in the Northwest to later find out that spotted owls are still dying at the same rate because of competition from great grey owls who will kill them in order to take over territory and such... Maybe it's just the spotted owls time to go... Extinction is a fact of life since before humans existed. You can't save everything right? It's unfortunate...

[Mudman]

When they burned wildlife prospered.  When they sprayed it didn't.  Cold hard fact that no science or argument can change.  Dead bees, grouse, salmon, insects, sick elk, sick deer, poisoned peoples water in Or., etc.  BUT more yield and $ in crops and timber!  Nothing can be said to change the facts of what it was when I was a kid vs. now.  Only variable is spraying.  Believe what ya want but mark my words, someday in future It  will be proven these are mostly harmful and corruption is blatant.  Whether its glyph or 2-4 or atrazine or ? some are bad.  Which one is it?  Dunno because testing was corrupted for $$.  Farmers are caught in the middle due to competition and $.  How successful would local farmers be if they didn't use these trying to hang with the giant Chinese amer. farm corps who lobby for these chems???

[W_Ellison2011]

Yep, and as for things like grouse decline, well that's been happening my whole life and I don't think glyphosate was nearly as prevalent in 1990 even but the decline was still showing and just like the spotted owl, they blamed the logging industry and basically gutted it in the Northwest to later find out that spotted owls are still dying at the same rate because of competition from great grey owls who will kill them in order to take over territory and such... Maybe it's just the spotted owls time to go... Extinction is a fact of life since before humans existed. You can't save everything right? It's unfortunate...

Side not to this.. I've been shooting grouse since I was a kid. Late 90's and early 2000's were bad for grouse. Now I can't even drive a mile down a mountain road without finding at least one. Last year my buddy and I both shot limits every day in both the South Rainier unit and up in Hancocks Kapowsin area when it was open. I haven't seen any sick blacktails, not saying it doesn't happen. The blacktail I took late season archery out of Hancock last year was a perfectly healthy Doe. I think we need to put a LOT more pressure on wdfw and DNR to figure out what is causing the hoof rot in our elk herds and stop letting out emotions guide us to make assumptions.

[LDennis24]

https://www.rt.com/business/448846-canada-monsanto-glyphosate-safety/amp/

[Mudman]

I hope you all realize they are spraying more chems then just glyphosate.  It is a long list. Glyph is only 1 small part and is the only major one marketed to the public!  Why is that?  Why aren't the other 6 chems as well?  Lots of questions.. I do like how words in article state how study was of "levels of exposure" and not noted about over exposure or accumilations beyond those stated levels.