blacktail deer pre-rut

[predatorG]

Pic? 

[predatorG]

Here’s a little action my dad just sent me

[blackveltbowhunter]

Here's a couple predator.

[Blacktail Sniper]

That is a dandy buck!!

[TriggerMike]

TriggerMike is shooting holes in my theories.  Sounds like he's in 'em regularly, though that report was primarily prior to the "peak of the rut". 

TriggerMike - please keep us updated on your hunts.  I'm wondering if it will pick up again in the next couple of days.

In my imagination, I'd always pictured the quality hunts as being an chance to kill a monster buck while he's stupid in love.  They'd be all over the place and just walking around dazed and confused (or somethin' like that).  At a glance, the numbers harvest of four and five point bucks taken during the quality hunts seems to be proportionate to that of the regular season.  It may be that those taken are better quality/more mature (like Kodiak 907's buck posted a couple days ago), but the stats don't report that information.

No, I think your theory is solid. I had a similar mindset thinking I'd be seeing stud 4 points in clear cuts with the doe groups I've been watching since summer but thats just not the case. Last time I had this tag I tagged out on a 3x3 with eyeguards bedded in a clear cut on opening morning but opening day was November 18th that year. And what blackvelvet just said I think is spot on. As for an update today, I saw a good 2 point chasing two does late morning VERY aggressively. Watched them for about 10 minutes. He scent checked her pee at one point and immediately sprinted right at her and they were in a frenzy, which was very cool to watch. I ultimately decided to pass on him, he was a decent tall 2 that I wouldnt have hesitated on in general season. I then saw a group of 3 other does with no bucks this afternoon about a mile away. Last time I saw that group was on the 2nd and they were buck-less then as well. Today makes 8 bucks and 68 does since November 1st. If that's not quaility blacktail hunting then idk what is!

[TriggerMike]

Here's a couple predator.

Great buck!

[fishnfur]

Excellent thoughts on the topic BlackVelt.  I think you've hit on a couple important ideas contributing to the mixed bag of results that I've noticed over the past several years:

- Many hunters pursue special hunt tags for areas they are unfamiliar with, adding to the difficulty of locating game and hunting effectively.  Pre-season scouting and familiarity of the area hunted are paramount in most instances.

- Skilled hunters tend to have a better chance at success and are more likely to take advantage of increased availability of mature bucks during this period.  The drawing for tags though has no preference for hunter skill, which results in a broad spectrum of skill levels hitting the woods hoping for a Booner.  In the case of your buddy, his plight demonstrates that Blacktail hunting can leave even a skilled hunter frustrated, but it may also accurately demonstrate the picture I was attempting to paint.

It is very likely that, as you point out, a large part of the mixed results is that unfamiliarity of the area hunted.  Additionally, another huge part of it is the fact that many areas just don't have huge numbers of deer everywhere.  Without good scouting, the chances of finding a great spot are drastically reduced.  On the other hand, good scouting in areas with low deer numbers will likely lead to poorer results than those compared to better areas.

On the other hand, the basis of my argument remains that for Blacktail, these Quality Hunts for many hunters don't often live up to our expectation (though in your case, it certainly did).  We all understand that hunting generally improves during the last few days of October.  I believed (right or wrong) that hunters expect that the trend toward better hunting continues up to the peak of the rut (say the 10 - 12 Nov. for the sake of this discussion).   In my observation of postings on this forum, it seems to be a common occurrence that hunters are often seeing nothing at all in the woods or have just a glimpse or two of bucks over the course of many days of hunting during their Quality Hunts (similar to the quality of the General Season).  I know that when I go to areas where I consistently see deer during the General Season and then come November, I see none, day after day, during the "peak of the rut" period, then I'm obviously not understanding correctly what has changed, or I don't know when the actual peak of the rut is in my area.  When I combine my observations with similar findings expressed by others, then I'm inclined to wonder what is really going on (hence this discussion).

The confounding part of this situation is that different regions and different elevations seem to be on slightly different time schedules for the progression of the rut.  The first five days of November may be incredible hunting in one area and plain lousy in another.  It seems to be impossible to predict how this may play into a Quality Hunt until the hunter is actually in the woods.  Good pre-season scouting will not create a hot doe in the area if none are ready to breed.  Ultimately, the success rates for the Quality Hunts demonstrates that for many hunters, the harvest rate is no better (and possibly worse) than that experienced during the general season.  The fact that somewhere around 40 percent of the harvest is taken in just four days following that Quality Hunt period seems to indicate that there's possibly a lull in the action in there somewhere, and ultimately, closing the deal on an unknown/un-scouted big buck still seems to come down to being in the right place at the right time and some luck.

As you correctly pointed out though, this tag might be the best opportunity to harvest that big buck that you know is out there.  It is essentially an extended season that allows you more time to close the deal on a big one that is playing hard to get, even during his period of weakness. 

Thanks for playing.  Your comments substantiate that the tag certainly has "value" by way of an increased opportunity to hunt bucks that might not otherwise be available during the general season. 

[fishnfur]

Hell of a nice buck BlackVelt!

TriggerMike - You're killin' me.  That's some serious blacktail numbers.  Hope that big boy shows up soon.   Good luck!

[predatorG]

Fishnfur you said “on the other hand” twice. Does that mean you have three hands??

Might be helpful when skinning a deer   

[fishnfur]

 

Hey Kid - You know why they don't send donkeys to college? 

Hey PredatorG.  What time was that trail cam shot taken?   Unless there was an eclipse going on, I think the cam is wrong.
Did dad get his buck this year??  Hope he's saving that masher for you.

(The answer about the donkey??  Nobody likes a smart ass)

[blackveltbowhunter]

 Good luck Trigger Mike!!  Sounds like a good time

 I 100 percent agree with your comments Fish about the hunters view of the rut. I think we all tend to think of it in a linear fashion where all of a sudden the light is on and activity and intensity increase until a certain point at which its off again.

  Over and over we see thats not the case and so many factors go into the mix that make deciphering the formula a great discussion. Is it moon phase, weather, photo period, deer density, buck density, pressure...etcc... My take is at the end of the day really the only thing we can control is the amount of time we are able to spend during 'Primetime" IME I will always take the first 2 weeks of november for BT in the areas I have hunted.  So adding to that can only help.

  For the most part I have noticed bucks really go low pro at 3.5 in the BT woods. Sure they get a bit more antsy around the rut and that's why many of them get killed during those October days that are just right.  But regardless of what he has grown up top, looking over bucks that are past that age is very tough and IMO only the very elite BT guys will ever pass one up during a general season. We have a few of those guys here and hunt wa should thank their lucky stars. But I am not one of those  

   This recent cold front has been awesome for the daylight movement, and to all those guys fortunate enough to be holding a permit.... Good luck!!

[SteelheadTed]

Another quality tag hunter (Mason unit) checking in. 

• The unit I am hunting is a new unit to me and I did no preseason scouting (yeah, I didn't have much time but I could have gotten out, I thought the hunting would be much easier and assumed there would be deer everywhere, rookie move)
• I am relatively new to hunting, this is my fourth season
• I think I am good enough to spot animals that are there, I don't think I am overlooking much
• I've covered a lot of ground (after sitting a lot earlier in the season I've moved a lot more the past 4 times out)
• I will likely hunt this unit during next years general season so the experience won't go to waste
• I've seen precious few animals, 5 does and 1 small buck in 6 trips out

So I fit somewhere within the issues fishnfur brought up.  I know I am not the only one struggling in that unit during the special tag hunt.  If I knew the unit better, had scouted and was a better hunter, I think I would have filled my tag by now.  BUT, it wouldn't have been easy.  They just aren't out during the day right now, at least not in any numbers.

I am most likely done with the special tag season due to work obligations but I'll be back out for the late general, somewhere!

[hillbillyhunting]

Another quality tag hunter (Mason unit) checking in. 

• The unit I am hunting is a new unit to me and I did no preseason scouting (yeah, I didn't have much time but I could have gotten out, I thought the hunting would be much easier and assumed there would be deer everywhere, rookie move)
• I am relatively new to hunting, this is my fourth season
• I think I am good enough to spot animals that are there, I don't think I am overlooking much
• I've covered a lot of ground (after sitting a lot earlier in the season I've moved a lot more the past 4 times out)
• I will likely hunt this unit during next years general season so the experience won't go to waste
• I've seen precious few animals, 5 does and 1 small buck in 6 trips out

My son has this tag and we have had a really difficult time finding deer.  I hunted this unit during the regular season and saw a lot more deer than we are seeing right now.  I had the best success at the beginning of the regular rifle season.  I think the deer went 100% nocturnal with all the pressure this unit gets.  Even though we have practically had the woods to ourselves; we have only managed to see about a dozen does in 7 hard days of hunting. 
[/list]

So I fit somewhere within the issues fishnfur brought up.  I know I am not the only one struggling in that unit during the special tag hunt.  If I knew the unit better, had scouted and was a better hunter, I think I would have filled my tag by now.  BUT, it wouldn't have been easy.  They just aren't out during the day right now, at least not in any numbers.

I am most likely done with the special tag season due to work obligations but I'll be back out for the late general, somewhere!

[fishnfur]

Good luck Trigger Mike!!  Sounds like a good time

 I 100 percent agree with your comments Fish about the hunters view of the rut. I think we all tend to think of it in a linear fashion where all of a sudden the light is on and activity and intensity increase until a certain point at which its off again.

  Over and over we see thats not the case and so many factors go into the mix that make deciphering the formula a great discussion. Is it moon phase, weather, photo period, deer density, buck density, pressure...etcc... My take is at the end of the day really the only thing we can control is the amount of time we are able to spend during 'Primetime" IME I will always take the first 2 weeks of november for BT in the areas I have hunted.  So adding to that can only help.

  For the most part I have noticed bucks really go low pro at 3.5 in the BT woods. Sure they get a bit more antsy around the rut and that's why many of them get killed during those October days that are just right.  But regardless of what he has grown up top, looking over bucks that are past that age is very tough and IMO only the very elite BT guys will ever pass one up during a general season. We have a few of those guys here and hunt wa should thank their lucky stars. But I am not one of those  

   This recent cold front has been awesome for the daylight movement, and to all those guys fortunate enough to be holding a permit.... Good luck!!

Well said.  Ultimately, it is what it is.  We cannot change it, only adapt to the situations at hand and deal with it.

If my ideas about a slow period during the "peak of the rut" had any validity, I'd guess that it would be for a relatively short time frame - perhaps seven to eight days max.  Quite possibly just five or six days. Once all the does have been taken care of, the bucks should get moving again. 

I would imagine that rather than hunting the same area over and over again and seeing no action, it might make sense for the hunter to go up or down in elevation or move some distance within the Quality unit drawn.  Steve Isdahl, who runs the Blacktail Hunter App and HowtoHunt.com describes a situation in which the groups of does move from spot to spot around a mountain in response to hunter or predator pressure during the rut (in BC).  He manages the situation where he's lost track of the does by trying to guess where they might have moved and then slowly working his way from area to area until he locates them again.  His scenario may account for some (or possibly much) of the lack of action many WA hunters experience during the Quality Hunts (following the heavy hunting in late-October and during MF Elk).  Something to put in your back pockets anyways.

I've been hearing some movement and jumping around in the woods down here during my firewood runs in the last three days.  I investigated today and found some pretty massive tracks just over the edge of a hilltop cut, inside the edge of big super steep timber.  I think they're moving a bit more, down here anyways.   

Good luck everyone with the last few days of Quality and the following Late Buck Season.  Should be some nice Blackies hittin' the dirt.  Eat a good breakfast. Take a lunch (and a second set of rain gear and dry clothes, if necessary) with you.  Stay out all day.  Hunt hard.  Don't give up.   

[Mike450r]

I've been hunting blacktail deer a long time and I rarely if ever see as many deer during the rut as I do in the months prior, I do see more bucks but overall deer numbers are almost always less. 

Does are getting followed around by hormone fueled bucks of all sizes, they get a lot more skittish and seem to be on the move more often than not.  In my experience your chances of seeing deer may go down but your chances of a buck being among those deer go up.  This weather doesn't help much either.

If you want to get a good idea of the deer numbers in a particular area get out there on a rainy September day, that's when I usually see the most.