Woodland Caribou of WA....and ID/BC

[Hoythunter]

Perhaps now the feds will open back up some of that country to snowmobiling and other outdoor activities that has been shut down over the years to save their beloved Caribou herd.  Sorry but the adverse economic impact it’s had on various communities that rely on winter sports has been huge over the years.  Between the off road recreation areas that has been closed due to Grizzly rehabilition and saving said herd
a guy hardly (figuratively speaking) has access to his own public land.  I’m speaking from N Idaho experience than anything else, I don’t know first-hand about any impact on WA areas.

yeah thank god we finally extirpated a native species so we can scoot around the mountains I understand and respect that people want to travel on snow machines and that there are economic factors too, but come on. This is a failure on our part- as conservationist, citizens, and people who think nature has a place in our increasingly civilized world. There are plenty of places to ride in NE WA and N ID, and if we want more it shouldn't be because a species stood in our way- we don't need to celebrate these losses.

How educated are you about the numbers of Caribou in the panhandle?  I’m willing to bet I’ve spent more time in their “habitat” than most.  I’m fairly well connected to the business owners and residents of that area.  That said, I can’t think of anyone that’s ever seen one of these ghosts.  Check that, even a track.  I’m with you and most when it comes to protecting a species and doing what we can as conservationist to protect said herd and support reviving efforts.  That said, sorry, the efforts over the past 15 years have done more harm than good in my opinion.  Real people, real lives have been adversely impacted in efforts trying to protect.  The West side of Priest Lake use to be a Winter destination for hundreds, if not thousands of riders each year.  The place is now a ghost town come Jan/Feb, resulting in major economic challenges for business owners and many others.

I have seen them there.

I also spend ~40-50 winter days a year at Priest Lake, mostly North and West, and see the snowmobile/snowbike traffic.  There are literally thousands of miles of trail, road, and play areas available to over snow travel.  You're overplaying the implications of the injunction.

How much do you suppose the 2008 economic downturn impacted those businesses?  A room a the only hotel in Nordman is ~$125 a night, a new sled is 5-8k, fuel is down from nearly $4.00 per gallon....yep, the handful of closed roads must be the problem.

I’m sure you’ve seen them.  If I studied them, wolves, or whatever else I’d sure hope to see them as well.  Trust me, the recession is well in the rear view mirror for the people who afford to recreate in that area.  It’s no wonder why places are closing up for Winter months and it’s surely not because of a recession that kept riders home a decade ago.  I trust your knowledge in your field of expertise, same with my knowledge in the economic / financial world.    I live there for over half the year and spend as much time as possible in these areas.  Gods country at its finest.  I’ll agree to disagree on this one, I’m not one to throw stones when someone is working passionately for a cause that all of us have great interest in.

[teanawayslayer]

I wish WDFW was even 1/4 as focused on saving these animals as they are on 'saving' wolves.  It's a disgrace, honestly.

isn't that the truth

[buglebrush]

You cannot simultaneously promote and protect both predators and Caribou.  Sadly WDFW is clueless on this regard. 

[meatwhack]

You’re correct there are still a lot of trails that weren’t effected by the caribou habitat restrictions but there were thousands of acres of NF land that was closed to riding. A large majority of riders that recreate in that area go for the mountain riding not the trail riding.

[andrew_in_idaho]

If they conveniently let them go away thanks to wolves, then they can blame it on climate change and impose more carbon taxes and restrictions. Win/win for the libs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jackelope]

Perhaps now the feds will open back up some of that country to snowmobiling and other outdoor activities that has been shut down over the years to save their beloved Caribou herd.  Sorry but the adverse economic impact it’s had on various communities that rely on winter sports has been huge over the years.  Between the off road recreation areas that has been closed due to Grizzly rehabilition and saving said herd
a guy hardly (figuratively speaking) has access to his own public land.  I’m speaking from N Idaho experience than anything else, I don’t know first-hand about any impact on WA areas.

yeah thank god we finally extirpated a native species so we can scoot around the mountains I understand and respect that people want to travel on snow machines and that there are economic factors too, but come on. This is a failure on our part- as conservationist, citizens, and people who think nature has a place in our increasingly civilized world. There are plenty of places to ride in NE WA and N ID, and if we want more it shouldn't be because a species stood in our way- we don't need to celebrate these losses.

How educated are you about the numbers of Caribou in the panhandle?  I’m willing to bet I’ve spent more time in their “habitat” than most.  I’m fairly well connected to the business owners and residents of that area.  That said, I can’t think of anyone that’s ever seen one of these ghosts.  Check that, even a track.  I’m with you and most when it comes to protecting a species and doing what we can as conservationist to protect said herd and support reviving efforts.  That said, sorry, the efforts over the past 15 years have done more harm than good in my opinion.  Real people, real lives have been adversely impacted in efforts trying to protect.  The West side of Priest Lake use to be a Winter destination for hundreds, if not thousands of riders each year.  The place is now a ghost town come Jan/Feb, resulting in major economic challenges for business owners and many others.

Careful now. Some folks from Idaho will tell you businesses don’t rely on tourism dollars there.

[jackelope]

I wish WDFW was even 1/4 as focused on saving these animals as they are on 'saving' wolves.  It's a disgrace, honestly.

wdfw is currently involved in a wolf food transplant effort from the Olympics to Cascades taking up their efforts....

A couple flaws in your statement.

1-It’s a federal operation. Sure wdfw is helping, but it’s a federal project.

2-in General, mountain goats don’t make good wolf food. The wolves can’t catch them.

[KFhunter]

Perhaps now the feds will open back up some of that country to snowmobiling and other outdoor activities that has been shut down over the years to save their beloved Caribou herd.  Sorry but the adverse economic impact it’s had on various communities that rely on winter sports has been huge over the years.  Between the off road recreation areas that has been closed due to Grizzly rehabilition and saving said herd
a guy hardly (figuratively speaking) has access to his own public land.  I’m speaking from N Idaho experience than anything else, I don’t know first-hand about any impact on WA areas.

yeah thank god we finally extirpated a native species so we can scoot around the mountains I understand and respect that people want to travel on snow machines and that there are economic factors too, but come on. This is a failure on our part- as conservationist, citizens, and people who think nature has a place in our increasingly civilized world. There are plenty of places to ride in NE WA and N ID, and if we want more it shouldn't be because a species stood in our way- we don't need to celebrate these losses.

How educated are you about the numbers of Caribou in the panhandle?  I’m willing to bet I’ve spent more time in their “habitat” than most.  I’m fairly well connected to the business owners and residents of that area.  That said, I can’t think of anyone that’s ever seen one of these ghosts.  Check that, even a track.  I’m with you and most when it comes to protecting a species and doing what we can as conservationist to protect said herd and support reviving efforts.  That said, sorry, the efforts over the past 15 years have done more harm than good in my opinion.  Real people, real lives have been adversely impacted in efforts trying to protect.  The West side of Priest Lake use to be a Winter destination for hundreds, if not thousands of riders each year.  The place is now a ghost town come Jan/Feb, resulting in major economic challenges for business owners and many others.

I've seen them, in Canada where I used to ride snowmobile but is now off limits.  They like to get on the pass and block traffic licking road salt off the highway.   

Caribou like the deep dark old growth timber with mossy stuff dangling off the tree branches, I know a lot of you all don't ride snowmobiles but riding in that old growth timber isn't much fun.

The only reason snowmobiles were locked out is because they make trails down logging roads that lead to the fun stuff in the alpine and open logged areas (where Caribou aren't), BUT wolves loooove to pad down packed snowmobile trails trolling for moose and incidentally could come across caribou through some of these areas.  Without the packed trails the theory is the wolves would stay down lower...hrm  I doubt this, the snow sets up and they chase the moose right to caribou habitat with or without snowmobile trails, but I can attest that wolves are successful in taking moose off snowmobile trails and literally pave the trail in wolf scat.  It's amazing the amount of wolf crap on a snowmobile trail through moose country.

WA/ID have always been at the very fringe of their habitat, much like Lynx and Wolverine...but we suffer the consequences of trying to establish them anyways.


EDIT  Since fladdery is so awesome at protecting cattle from wolves I suggest we line snowmobile trails with fladdery when going through sections of old growth timber to keep the wolves off the trails and out of caribou territory. 

[KFhunter]

I wish WDFW was even 1/4 as focused on saving these animals as they are on 'saving' wolves.  It's a disgrace, honestly.

wdfw is currently involved in a wolf food transplant effort from the Olympics to Cascades taking up their efforts....

A couple flaws in your statement.

1-It’s a federal operation. Sure wdfw is helping, but it’s a federal project.

2-in General, mountain goats don’t make good wolf food. The wolves can’t catch them.

Cougar are the mountain goats nemesis, along with mule deer now holding tight to the rocks in wolf areas.

[jackelope]

Saw the cat tracks on the hill I killed my billy on last fall.

[pianoman9701]

That Selkirk herd will be gone within a couple of years or sooner. The last I heard, they were down in the low teens for numbers and considered unrecoverable. Apparently Canadian wolves love caribou meat and the WDFW loves Canadian wolves more than caribou. It's a crime, literally. They are protected and are being wiped out.

[KFhunter]

meh, the Caribou are in Canada.  When the herd was a little bigger they came to WA only occasionally and ID a little more but that's over with the herd so small. 

Canada is actually doing quite a bit including reducing moose numbers (and wolves) and I thought I read about high fencing them at one time to keep them safe.

[CAMPMEAT]

There would be more Woodland Caribou in Washington Sate if CNW could of made lotsa money suing the state.

[Utah]

I watched 13 head for about 30 mins once in the mid 80's. South of Sullivan lake.  Think the herd was 20 something strong then.  Public needs more Access to kill predators up that neck of the woods.

[pianoman9701]

meh, the Caribou are in Canada.  When the herd was a little bigger they came to WA only occasionally and ID a little more but that's over with the herd so small. 

Canada is actually doing quite a bit including reducing moose numbers (and wolves) and I thought I read about high fencing them at one time to keep them safe.

They shouldn't need high fencing to survive.