New muzzleloader guidance

[WapitiTalk1]

See this is on sale at Midway Larry. Not sure if it’s a good one?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1073519314/thompson-center-impact-muzzleloading-rifle-50-caliber-synthetic-stock-26-blue-barrel

[Night goat]

TC used to be good but ive heard rumors about them now being junk since they got bought out, just a gun shop rumor tho.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/muzzleloader-kits/traditionstm-kentucky-rifle-kit.html thats what I built

Admittedly, its been an on-going project over the last 15 years. Built it as a kit as a noise maker, lost interest, got back into it, refinished it, made parts fit better.... Shot it a bit, got good with it, misplaced it, the. Found it, messed up my barrel, now have a new barrel amd am refurbishing it, going to cut down the stock, make some custom fits to it.....

The nice thing about a kit gun (not a kit as everything needed to shoot all in one box, but one you built and fit and finish) is that there is no wrong or right way to do it... You get a fairly nice barrel, and everything else you can make to fit your person. Bust out the handsaws, chiseled, carving knives and go to town. My Kentucky is my rifle, its a good intro to gun building, and once im done with my 3rd major round of mods, i will have a one of a kind hunting rifle that actually shoots well

[Night goat]

I may be long winded on the subject, however, I strongly advocate getting into it

We need a better photo uploader on hunt wa... Cant get my phone n hunt wa to get along

[bkaech]

Thanks a bunch guys!

I was thinking about the Accura, but I think I will go with the Optima for a starting point.  I liked the adjustable trigger and better barrel finish of the accura, just do not want to jump that deep into the lake on the 1st one in case I find I just do not like the ML format.  I was going to buy this week but some jerk buddy of mine made sure I saw the sale on some other gear I have been wanting and I spent my play $.  DOH!

For those that have an Optima, in my research I found a few threads that mention if you are unhappy with the trigger you can send it back to CVA and they can adjust/lower it down to around 3.5# pull.  I have learned this last year with my 308 that a lighter/cleaner trigger can make all the difference in the world for groups.

I love the trigger on my optima, never considered changing anything about it. But I’ve shot rifles with  terribly creepy triggers for years,  so I am easily pleased with anything resembling a good trigger.

[bkaech]

So a follow up, to keep things in one place.

What are the recommended tools/items for a 1st time ML owner to buy right off the bat?

I have seen threads about different powders, some love pyrodex, some say it makes carbon ridges making bullet seating difficult.  Some mentioned BH209 powder.

I thought years ago I heard someone (maybe at range) mention speedloaders and that they are highly recommended so you can pre-measure powder at home and have it the same every time at range or hunting?

For now.... just bullets, powder, and caps. Also cleaning stuff.

Great thing about muzzleloaders is that you are a reloaded for every shot, so it’s to experiment. I recommend 777 pellets (along as you get a 209 primer gun) they are simple and easier to clean than pyrodex. And Barnes bullets, or any sabotted bullet that shots well from your gun. Shoot and experiment until you have a combo you’re happy with to hunt with, then worry about buying any extras (speed loaders, cappers, bullet starters, anything else)

[lamrith]

So a follow up, to keep things in one place.

What are the recommended tools/items for a 1st time ML owner to buy right off the bat?

I have seen threads about different powders, some love pyrodex, some say it makes carbon ridges making bullet seating difficult.  Some mentioned BH209 powder.

I thought years ago I heard someone (maybe at range) mention speedloaders and that they are highly recommended so you can pre-measure powder at home and have it the same every time at range or hunting?

For now.... just bullets, powder, and caps. Also cleaning stuff.

Great thing about muzzleloaders is that you are a reloaded for every shot, so it’s to experiment. I recommend 777 pellets (along as you get a 209 primer gun) they are simple and easier to clean than pyrodex. And Barnes bullets, or any sabotted bullet that shots well from your gun. Shoot and experiment until you have a combo you’re happy with to hunt with, then worry about buying any extras (speed loaders, cappers, bullet starters, anything else)

Are Sabots fairly accurate?  Just surprising to me that having a plastic guide around a bullet at the speeds/pressures involved would be sloppy and affect accuracy?  I would think a solid bullet would be better?

[bobcat]

For a non sabot bullet I've always wanted to try Thor bullets.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/thor-bullet-sizing-pack.html

[Night goat]

So a follow up, to keep things in one place.

What are the recommended tools/items for a 1st time ML owner to buy right off the bat?

I have seen threads about different powders, some love pyrodex, some say it makes carbon ridges making bullet seating difficult.  Some mentioned BH209 powder.

I thought years ago I heard someone (maybe at range) mention speedloaders and that they are highly recommended so you can pre-measure powder at home and have it the same every time at range or hunting?

For now.... just bullets, powder, and caps. Also cleaning stuff.

Great thing about muzzleloaders is that you are a reloaded for every shot, so it’s to experiment. I recommend 777 pellets (along as you get a 209 primer gun) they are simple and easier to clean than pyrodex. And Barnes bullets, or any sabotted bullet that shots well from your gun. Shoot and experiment until you have a combo you’re happy with to hunt with, then worry about buying any extras (speed loaders, cappers, bullet starters, anything else)

Are Sabots fairly accurate?  Just surprising to me that having a plastic guide around a bullet at the speeds/pressures involved would be sloppy and affect accuracy?  I would think a solid bullet would be better?

Sabots CAN be highly accurate

However pay attention to the twist rate of the barrel you are going to be shooting them out of.

They are about useless in my Kentucky rifle, as I have a barrel that has a 1:66 twist rate, which is far too slow for a Sabot, even a 1:48 is still a traditional barrel for patched roundballs, once you get into slmething with say a 1:28 twist then a sabot can perform. Same with all other conicals.

With minie balls/conical bullets a 1:48 is starting to get into that realm, but...

There is nothing wrong with shooting a patched round ball, just like anything with a muzzleloader, it takes time dedication and practice to dial in that perfect load


Here is a copy and paste from another muzzleloader forum




A fast twist barrel such as a 1-20, 1-24, 1-28 even to some extent the 1-32 twist are made to shoot sabots or conical bullets the best. The weight of the projectile which is normally in direct correlation to its length will be effected by the speed of the twist and the cut of the rifling. But besides the weight of the bullet you must also consider the amount and type of powder you are shooting.

In my White Rifles which have a 1-20 on the .451 caliber and a 1-24 on the .504 caliber they are conical shooting masters. But I attribute a lot of that not only to the twist but the cut of the rifling. Still both of them will shoot sabot loads just fine.

My numerous 1-28 twist rifles tend to be excellent sabots shooters and pretty good conical shooters. But the amazing thing is, lower the powder charge and many of them will shoot patched roundball very well. In my Knight LK rifles for instance, as long as I stay under 70 grains, the favorite being 60 grains of 2f powder, they will really lay a roundball down range.

In my Lyman Great Plains Hunter which has a 1-32 twist, when I was breaking the rifle in and getting used to it, I found that 50 grains of powder and it shoots roundball as well as any of my rifles. But it also shoots Powerbelts, maxi ball, and even more heavy conical bullets with larger powder charges.

Then you get to the 1-48 twist barrels commonly found in many traditional rifles. They will shoot just about anything once you find the right powder charge. Some better then others, depending on the make of the rifle. So here is where I believe the cut of the rifling comes more into play. I have a Traditions Hawkens Woodsman with a 1-48 that shoots 240 grain sabots excellent. But think of it, a round ball is 177 grains so a 240 grain XTP is not that much bigger.

I have normally found the 1-56, 1-60, 1-66, and 1-70 twist rifles of mine shoot roundball the best. And not much other then roundball. But then the rifle was made to shoot roundball.

So the reason so many bullets are suggested when someone asks... what kind of projectile will my rifle shoot? Well there are many it might shoot depending on the twist and cut of the rifling. And then there are others that might work for someone else, that it will not shoot.

[Night goat]

The only science to muzzleloading is trial and error

[bkaech]

So a follow up, to keep things in one place.

What are the recommended tools/items for a 1st time ML owner to buy right off the bat?

I have seen threads about different powders, some love pyrodex, some say it makes carbon ridges making bullet seating difficult.  Some mentioned BH209 powder.

I thought years ago I heard someone (maybe at range) mention speedloaders and that they are highly recommended so you can pre-measure powder at home and have it the same every time at range or hunting?

For now.... just bullets, powder, and caps. Also cleaning stuff.

Great thing about muzzleloaders is that you are a reloaded for every shot, so it’s to experiment. I recommend 777 pellets (along as you get a 209 primer gun) they are simple and easier to clean than pyrodex. And Barnes bullets, or any sabotted bullet that shots well from your gun. Shoot and experiment until you have a combo you’re happy with to hunt with, then worry about buying any extras (speed loaders, cappers, bullet starters, anything else)

Are Sabots fairly accurate?  Just surprising to me that having a plastic guide around a bullet at the speeds/pressures involved would be sloppy and affect accuracy?  I would think a solid bullet would be better?

For inline muzzelloaders sabots are more accurate. Chuckhawks.com is a good start for researching this kind of stuff, several articles explaining why for this type of topic.