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Author Topic: WDFW Predator Lawsuit  (Read 42205 times)

Offline Tbar

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #135 on: December 31, 2018, 09:03:27 AM »
Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.
:yeah:
From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels.  :twocents:
Where would the SWAP play into that argument? Benefit and detriment?

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #136 on: December 31, 2018, 09:08:28 AM »
Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.
:yeah:
From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels.  :twocents:
Where would the SWAP play into that argument? Benefit and detriment?
SWAP? I'm not tracking what you are referring to...
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #137 on: December 31, 2018, 09:09:38 AM »
Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.
:yeah:
From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels.  :twocents:

From the legal side, the enviro groups don't care about the sweet little fawns. They're not supporting a predator spiral because they love wildlife. They support it to undermine and eventually end hunting. It's probably not going to be possible to spin a different angle on a lawsuit aimed at changing the DFW's flawed predator management or lack thereof.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace https://valoaneducator.tv/johnwallace-2014743

Offline jasnt

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #138 on: December 31, 2018, 09:13:31 AM »
Any and all input on the design is appreciated
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline hunter399

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #139 on: December 31, 2018, 09:15:44 AM »
I would support a lawsuit more if us hunters are also counted as predators.
I think wdfw has mismanaged predators ,animal kind and human kind as with hunting regs in general .
I don't see a lot of Hunters that are gonna agree that hunters and the way we are managed through the regs that are set as part of the problem as well.

Also what is the agenda of the lawsuit ,as compensation for hunters ,would be one question I would have to ask before I was fully support it.
Hound hunting returned
Bear baiting
Wolf hunting
Better regs for deer ,moose ,elk, to compensate for more predators .
Why are we dumping money and time ,what is the goal,or the big picture?

Offline Tbar

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #140 on: December 31, 2018, 09:17:21 AM »
State wildlife action plan.  It seems that the caribou would have been a perfect opportunity to use their own documents to facilitate management. That would have been a possible benefit but now there is extensive work done to identify sgcn. If this is an agency guiding document, what work has been done to identify the poor management by the department.  It may look as if the agency is fulfilling its mission with representations.

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #141 on: December 31, 2018, 09:21:51 AM »
Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.
:yeah:
From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels.  :twocents:

From the legal side, the enviro groups don't care about the sweet little fawns. They're not supporting a predator spiral because they love wildlife. They support it to undermine and eventually end hunting. It's probably not going to be possible to spin a different angle on a lawsuit aimed at changing the DFW's flawed predator management or lack thereof.
So hunters are going to "found and fund" a lawsuit that probably is not possible to win?  Am I following you correctly piano?

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #142 on: December 31, 2018, 09:23:32 AM »
I support all predator management and would like all of the above I mentioned .I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is just a wolf thing or all predators or what?

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #143 on: December 31, 2018, 09:24:06 AM »
I would support a lawsuit more if us hunters are also counted as predators.
I think wdfw has mismanaged predators ,animal kind and human kind as with hunting regs in general .
I don't see a lot of Hunters that are gonna agree that hunters and the way we are managed through the regs that are set as part of the problem as well.

Also what is the agenda of the lawsuit ,as compensation for hunters ,would be one question I would have to ask before I was fully support it.
Hound hunting returned
Bear baiting
Wolf hunting
Better regs for deer ,moose ,elk, to compensate for more predators .
Why are we dumping money and time ,what is the goal,or the big picture?
Your questions will be answered when the suit is initiated. I believe most hunters who are concerned about our game animals understand that we have an unchecked predator spiral in this state and will support it.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace https://valoaneducator.tv/johnwallace-2014743

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #144 on: December 31, 2018, 09:25:48 AM »
Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.
:yeah:
From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels.  :twocents:

From the legal side, the enviro groups don't care about the sweet little fawns. They're not supporting a predator spiral because they love wildlife. They support it to undermine and eventually end hunting. It's probably not going to be possible to spin a different angle on a lawsuit aimed at changing the DFW's flawed predator management or lack thereof.
So hunters are going to "found and fund" a lawsuit that probably is not possible to win?  Am I following you correctly piano?
No, you are not following.  I really have no more to say until the suit is filed.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace https://valoaneducator.tv/johnwallace-2014743

Offline Tbar

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #145 on: December 31, 2018, 09:33:12 AM »
Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.
:yeah:
From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels.  :twocents:

From the legal side, the enviro groups don't care about the sweet little fawns. They're not supporting a predator spiral because they love wildlife. They support it to undermine and eventually end hunting. It's probably not going to be possible to spin a different angle on a lawsuit aimed at changing the DFW's flawed predator management or lack thereof.
So hunters are going to "found and fund" a lawsuit that probably is not possible to win?  Am I following you correctly piano?
No, you are not following.  I really have no more to say until the suit is filed.
What am I not following? I think you are correct.  To enter into litigation unarmed is cavalier at best.  What literature is out there to help educate and paint the picture of poor management? I honestly would love to read it all! To gain support preparation is needed and you seem to have the inside track. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 09:39:26 AM by Tbar »

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #146 on: December 31, 2018, 09:36:42 AM »
If it were impossible to win, it wouldn't be filed. Not sure where you got that from the above comments which are related more to observation of the above proposed stickers/signs and the perception of the public. Those comments have nothing to do with the lawsuit.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace https://valoaneducator.tv/johnwallace-2014743

Offline Bango skank

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #147 on: December 31, 2018, 09:44:33 AM »
Any and all input on the design is appreciated

I think its kind of too busy.  With all that going on, a decal would have to be huge.  Id say the state needs to be removed, or made much smaller.   :twocents:

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #148 on: December 31, 2018, 09:49:03 AM »
Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.
:yeah:
From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels.  :twocents:

From the legal side, the enviro groups don't care about the sweet little fawns. They're not supporting a predator spiral because they love wildlife. They support it to undermine and eventually end hunting. It's probably not going to be possible to spin a different angle on a lawsuit aimed at changing the DFW's flawed predator management or lack thereof.
I'm talking about only the PR side, not the legal side.  As I've previously stated, I'm withholding judgement until substantially more detail is presented on the lawsuit - but with the limited information provided thus far - I see no path to success for a lawsuit at this time.  Hence a PR effort might be more fruitful and my point still stands...a successful PR campaign would follow what I outline above.  The PR campaign is not directed at the crazies on the enviro side...you'll never convince them of anything.  It's to convince that middle 80% voting bloc that we need more balanced wildlife management than is occurring. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW Predator Lawsuit
« Reply #149 on: December 31, 2018, 09:53:34 AM »
Even though certain antics might be humorous, I'm not sure what will actually help our cause. Once this suit gets underway certain enviro groups and/or media will likely use anything to make hunters look like hillbillies who know nothing.
:yeah:
From a general PR side regarding predator management - I think the notion of highlighting loss of Caribou and concerns about other ungulates is a much better approach than directly targeting predators.  The urban folks still love their cuddly wolves and bears...so make the issue about saving those sweet little fawns and calves with their pretty brown eyes.  Any of the garbage with crosshairs and kill all the wolves will only hurt the cause in this liberal state.  The message should be about balanced wildlife management...not annihilating any one species or killing them down to minimal levels.  :twocents:

From the legal side, the enviro groups don't care about the sweet little fawns. They're not supporting a predator spiral because they love wildlife. They support it to undermine and eventually end hunting. It's probably not going to be possible to spin a different angle on a lawsuit aimed at changing the DFW's flawed predator management or lack thereof.
I'm talking about only the PR side, not the legal side.  As I've previously stated, I'm withholding judgement until substantially more detail is presented on the lawsuit - but with the limited information provided thus far - I see no path to success for a lawsuit at this time.  Hence a PR effort might be more fruitful and my point still stands...a successful PR campaign would follow what I outline above.  The PR campaign is not directed at the crazies on the enviro side...you'll never convince them of anything.  It's to convince that middle 80% voting bloc that we need more balanced wildlife management than is occurring.

This is a lawsuit, not an initiative. You don't need to convince the general public of anything. You need to convince 12 jurors and a judge after facts and testimony have been presented to them. I would imagine the purpose of the above stickers would be to raise money for the suit. Appeal to sportsmen.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace https://valoaneducator.tv/johnwallace-2014743

 


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