Have corn pond complexes affected your 2018 duck season?

[crabcreekhunter]

Guess what guys.  I did some research on harvest statistics for some federal wildlife refuges south of Eagle Lakes in Washington and Oregon.  The stats go back to 2010 which was a time when there were complexes.  Harvest numbers in one refuge has either varied by +/- 600 year to year so pretty consistent and highest numbers in the last 3 years.  In the case of the other refuge harvest numbers have almost gone up 2.5x.  So rest assured that the corn complexes making your hunting worse than what it was are unfounded at least within the last 7 or 8 years.

Have noticed since about 2000 hunting in the upper basin has been very poor puddler wise than it was in the 80s and 90s... Not nearly the amount of ducks and drastic change in duck patterns.  Is it these huge complexes pulling the birds through before weather pushes them through?? So south of Othello/tricities may be as good or better with the complexes and I see potholes north is not as good as it was in the past.  Just my observations and could very well be due to these complexes in my eyes

[JBG]

Honest question, JBG: much of a negative effect do you think banning flooded corn would have on private land hunters? If you planted those same flooded areas with dry cereal crops or kept them filled with water and smartweed, how big would the drop off be?

My guess is that Eagle Lakes and other clubs could still kill plenty of birds to keep members happy and run a profitable business, while public land hunters over water would see their opportunity increase (as more really thirsty ducks would need to find water after filling up with dry corn).

I would hate to ruin hunting opportunity for anyone. I teach hunter ed, so I'm big on hunter recruitment. If flooded corn is banned, my guess is the guys hunting Eagle Lakes and elsewhere would still hunt, and it would be easier to introduce new guys to hunting on public land.

I’m glad you teach hunters Ed as it’s a very important part of the hunting journey.
We need to deal with reality on reality’s terms. Corn complexes wil not be outlawed on a state for federal basis. As stated before there is big money behind them also you would be taking opportunity away from public hunters who hunt public land that has flooded corn. I don’t know for a fact but I bet some feel free to hunt and QHA at least in western Washington have flooded corn. Hunter success has been up in the areas to the south of EL so really you are sending new hunters out into a world of great waterfowling opportunity. Manage expectations and tell them limits are the exception and 2-3 per hunt is the norm. I do agree that artificial means like ice eaters or even water pumps could be regulated as they would not infringe on naturally flooded public land that has been planted.
Everyone should just remember that we are living in the golden years of duck hunting despite personal experiences. Not since the 60-70’s have we had these number of ducks. Got get yours.

[greenhead_killer]

Why not just allow pub land hunters the ability to bait then? At least would give them an equal opportunity of enticing waterfowl back on to pub land.

My hunting partner and I were discussing this thread the other day. We used to hunt exclusively in the othello area, sometimes on pub lands bordering eagle lakes. I will say, 10 years ago from day one of the season to the end, we could scratch two limits out no problem most days. If we didn’t, it was because our shooting was poor that day. Anymore, the ponds we used to hunt, you are lucky to scratch out a one man limit between 2-3 guys sometimes. The bird numbers are just not like they used to be. What would entice a bird to stay away from a golden buffet like these corn complexes put on? There is nothing on the public side you can do to compete with them, thus creating a monopoly for them. they are making very good money on a public resource.
To whoever said that ‘just hunt the land adjacent if it’s available to the complexes’ we used to, until the guide service cut every inch of reed/brush on the public side, leaving nothing to conceal yourself in. Was pretty cool when they didn’t that. I’ve had a sour taste in my mouth since that time and will never support them. Not when shenanigans like that are being pulled to further manipulate a public resource

[JBG]

Yet in the public areas south of you hunter success increased in that time by 30% and it’s not all divers when puddlers our number them 700 to 1.  The duck counts showed in one instance 82,000 birds on the refuge complex south of potholes and 13000 at Eagles Lakes. Ducks are a s show which I why it’s fun to chase them I guess. And anyone who says the 80’s duck hunting was better than now is high. I guess if you like 45 day seasons and 3 mallard limits you can have it.

[full choke]

Yet in the public areas south of you hunter success increased in that time by 30% and it’s not all divers when puddlers our number them 700 to 1.  The duck counts showed in one instance 82,000 birds on the refuge complex south of potholes and 13000 at Eagles Lakes. Ducks are a s show which I why it’s fun to chase them I guess. And anyone who says the 80’s duck hunting was better than now is high. I guess if you like 45 day seasons and 3 mallard limits you can have it.

But 79,500 of those ducks on that refuge only leave that refuge to head over to the flooded corn complex right near by. Before they FLOODED the corn, those same ducks ventured out to MANY different fields and marshes to feed. That is why everyone is bitching.

[JBG]

Well good luck with that. I hope weather comes in to turn your season around and that your new hunters are safe and greenhearts limits are the norm not the exception for them as it supposedly ought to be.

[greenhead_killer]

I don’t hunt out there anymore. We moved to the river about the time it all went to hell. And I don’t need limits to be happy, thanks for the well wishes though.

[shallowforks]

Seems like a complex issue, no pun intended. Nobody wants to tell someone what they can or cant do on their own private land. Its un-american right? Okay. But everyone also seems to feel like these same landowners are using said land to abuse or monopolize a PUBLIC recource for PROFIT. Okay. So what could be done about it? Heres an abstract idea that could be developed by people smarter than I. What if in return for profiting from a public recource, these outfits paid a modest “public recource  tax” of some form, that was required to be used by wdfw to reinvest into improving the quality of public lands open to waterfowl hunting. This is a multi-faceted issue but an issue nonetheless. Personally, I feel like its a baiting loophole, that should just be closed. Close the loophole and let the outfits manipulate their land in a slightly different way to still have success and make money but not be blatantly skirting a law. But I like listening to other ideas on how to approach the situation.

[shallowforks]

Oops had a typo in the above but just fixed it

[lokidog]

Yet in the public areas south of you hunter success increased in that time by 30% and it’s not all divers when puddlers our number them 700 to 1.  The duck counts showed in one instance 82,000 birds on the refuge complex south of potholes and 13000 at Eagles Lakes. Ducks are a s show which I why it’s fun to chase them I guess. And anyone who says the 80’s duck hunting was better than now is high. I guess if you like 45 day seasons and 3 mallard limits you can have it.

But 79,500 of those ducks on that refuge only leave that refuge to head over to the flooded corn complex right near by. Before they FLOODED the corn, those same ducks ventured out to MANY different fields and marshes to feed. That is why everyone is bitching.

 

Anything that alters the natural behavior of mass amounts of wildlife should be looked at closely.

[singleshot12]

I sure wouldn't think these corn complexes would fall under the legal category of "normal or standard agricultural practices"? There is no question that's it's being planted for the sole purpose to "bait" waterfowl. But I suppose they could claim "cover crop"? Definitely a grey area if anything.
But does make the outlaw guy who dumps a sack of cracked corn for a days hunt seem like a drop the bucket.

[hunterednate]

Honest question, JBG: much of a negative effect do you think banning flooded corn would have on private land hunters? If you planted those same flooded areas with dry cereal crops or kept them filled with water and smartweed, how big would the drop off be?

My guess is that Eagle Lakes and other clubs could still kill plenty of birds to keep members happy and run a profitable business, while public land hunters over water would see their opportunity increase (as more really thirsty ducks would need to find water after filling up with dry corn).

I would hate to ruin hunting opportunity for anyone. I teach hunter ed, so I'm big on hunter recruitment. If flooded corn is banned, my guess is the guys hunting Eagle Lakes and elsewhere would still hunt, and it would be easier to introduce new guys to hunting on public land.

I’m glad you teach hunters Ed as it’s a very important part of the hunting journey.
We need to deal with reality on reality’s terms. Corn complexes wil not be outlawed on a state for federal basis. As stated before there is big money behind them also you would be taking opportunity away from public hunters who hunt public land that has flooded corn. I don’t know for a fact but I bet some feel free to hunt and QHA at least in western Washington have flooded corn. Hunter success has been up in the areas to the south of EL so really you are sending new hunters out into a world of great waterfowling opportunity. Manage expectations and tell them limits are the exception and 2-3 per hunt is the norm. I do agree that artificial means like ice eaters or even water pumps could be regulated as they would not infringe on naturally flooded public land that has been planted.
Everyone should just remember that we are living in the golden years of duck hunting despite personal experiences. Not since the 60-70’s have we had these number of ducks. Got get yours.

Why don't you think corn ponds will ever be outlawed? Game laws are revised every year, on state and national levels. Too much money at stake/lobbying power by corn complex owners?

And you're right about living in the golden years of duck hunting. It makes me wonder what the effect of these corn ponds will be on years when ducks are scarce. My guess is whatever "spill over" effect is happening now will be greatly reduced.

Those low duck number years might be what it takes to make enough hunters aware of this issue to make a legal change happen.

[Samloffler]

The reality is that these places are legal. You can talk about loopholes and skirting all you want, but until you decide to do something substantial about it nothing is going to change. Complaining about it on an internet forum is useless. Write a letter to your congressman, send an email to wdfw, call a biologist.

Frankly, I agree with most of this thread. I think the flooded corn should be considered baiting, but at this point it isn't. I also think that they benefit everyone in the big picture. More birds around and being held in the area on the whole.

I know a lot of you have to dive 4 or 5 hours to get down here and be frustrated. I'm lucky enough to live in the basin so maybe I have a different perspective. For the record, I refuse to pay that kind of money for some ducks.

[Stein]

For what it is worth, WDFW plants a ton of crops and I don't believe they own a combine.  If the law was changed to not allow hunting over standing crops, a bunch of public land hunters would suffer as would those hunting around those crops on private and the waterfowl in general as there would be less feed.

[hunterednate]

The reality is that these places are legal. You can talk about loopholes and skirting all you want, but until you decide to do something substantial about it nothing is going to change. Complaining about it on an internet forum is useless. Write a letter to your congressman, send an email to wdfw, call a biologist.

Frankly, I agree with most of this thread. I think the flooded corn should be considered baiting, but at this point it isn't. I also think that they benefit everyone in the big picture. More birds around and being held in the area on the whole.

I know a lot of you have to dive 4 or 5 hours to get down here and be frustrated. I'm lucky enough to live in the basin so maybe I have a different perspective. For the record, I refuse to pay that kind of money for some ducks.

True, but the benefit of discussions like this is spreading awareness to other hunters. Most of the corn complexes are out of sight and out of mind for the average hunter - especially the private clubs. If more public hunters could see this firsthand, they would be more likely to contact wildlife management agencies when the comment period reopens.

Satellite imagery on Google Earth really helped open my eyes. I encourage all WA duck hunters to take a virtual aerial tour of the Basin north of the Tri Cities to see the scope and scale of some of these flooded corn operations. "Pond" is much too quaint a word!