Picking a side of the state for deer hunting

[ljsommer]

I didn't read all 5 pages of this thread but I think picking west or east for deer would suck.  I understand and agree with why it's it for elk but I dont see a purpose for deer.

I believe the purpose is that blacktails are horrifically difficult to hunt, and the terrain east of the mountains allows for glassing. It's my (very very junior) understanding that people head east for a better hunt experience. My understanding is that mule numbers are down, white tail numbers are down, but blacktail numbers are doing great.
IMO: Keep blacktail season wide open, restrict muley and whitetail.

Let's put it this way: How many people east of the mountains are driving West to hunt blacktails?

Blacktail numbers are way down. They aren't doing great. Most people choose to hunt mulies not because blacktails are so hard to hunt. It's because mulies have bigger antlers and it doesn't rain nearly as much in eastern Washington as it does in western Washington.

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This is the first I am hearing that blacktail numbers are down. Housing development on the west side has been like a wildfire for how many years now? These neighborhoods tucked into the woods present endless amounts of edge habitat, and if they're inside of city limits then hunting is prohibited. Even if they aren't, half the state is ultra-left voters who would never let you harvest a deer on their property. I know this is anecdotal but I've literally got deer walking down the sidewalk in full daylight where I live, inside city limits.

Edit: If that's actually true, that BT numbers are down, that means that all species numbers are down? Man I gotta say, I should take some Xanax before I read these forums, they bum me out to no end.

I also see 4-7+ whitetail in my neighborhood every day... that is of no indication to how the whitetail are doing anywhere else. Where I hunt deer (Gmu127) doe numbers are in the tank and fawn recruitment is terrible the last 3 years. I really can’t speak to anywhere else but where I frequent and hunt though

I think my previous point is still relevant though - we have a whole lot of hunters heading East to hunt, and not a whole lot heading West. I would go as far as to say "very few". That kind of suggests a need for some more intelligent planning and management.

[grundy53]

I didn't read all 5 pages of this thread but I think picking west or east for deer would suck.  I understand and agree with why it's it for elk but I dont see a purpose for deer.

I believe the purpose is that blacktails are horrifically difficult to hunt, and the terrain east of the mountains allows for glassing. It's my (very very junior) understanding that people head east for a better hunt experience. My understanding is that mule numbers are down, white tail numbers are down, but blacktail numbers are doing great.
IMO: Keep blacktail season wide open, restrict muley and whitetail.

Let's put it this way: How many people east of the mountains are driving West to hunt blacktails?

Blacktail numbers are way down. They aren't doing great. Most people choose to hunt mulies not because blacktails are so hard to hunt. It's because mulies have bigger antlers and it doesn't rain nearly as much in eastern Washington as it does in western Washington.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

This is the first I am hearing that blacktail numbers are down. Housing development on the west side has been like a wildfire for how many years now? These neighborhoods tucked into the woods present endless amounts of edge habitat, and if they're inside of city limits then hunting is prohibited. Even if they aren't, half the state is ultra-left voters who would never let you harvest a deer on their property. I know this is anecdotal but I've literally got deer walking down the sidewalk in full daylight where I live, inside city limits.

Edit: If that's actually true, that BT numbers are down, that means that all species numbers are down? Man I gotta say, I should take some Xanax before I read these forums, they bum me out to no end.

Non huntable populations of deer do not reflect the overall herd health.

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[BULLBLASTER]

A bit of info from 2017 harvest stats...

16,930 deer came from districts 1-8 (east side)
10,075 deer came from districts 9-17 (west side)

This is general season harvest.

Sure looks like enough people hunt the west side to me.

As a side note. Districts 1,2,3 had 11,000+ deer taken. Most of which would probably be whitetail I would guess.

[ljsommer]

A bit of info from 2017 harvest stats...

16,930 deer came from districts 1-8 (east side)
10,075 deer came from districts 9-17 (west side)

This is general season harvest.

Sure looks like enough people hunt the west side to me.

As a side note. Districts 1,2,3 had 11,000+ deer taken. Most of which would probably be whitetail I would guess.

The population west of the cascades is more than three times larger than the population east of the cascades, and yet we're seeing 60% more deer harvested east of the cascades.

[BULLBLASTER]

A bit of info from 2017 harvest stats...

16,930 deer came from districts 1-8 (east side)
10,075 deer came from districts 9-17 (west side)

This is general season harvest.

Sure looks like enough people hunt the west side to me.

As a side note. Districts 1,2,3 had 11,000+ deer taken. Most of which would probably be whitetail I would guess.

The population west of the cascades is more than three times larger than the population east of the cascades, and yet we're seeing 60% more deer harvested east of the cascades.

what does that have to do with choosing east/west or species.

10k blacktail killed tells me that there would always be people who choose to hunt them over going east.

[Jonathan_S]

A bit of info from 2017 harvest stats...

16,930 deer came from districts 1-8 (east side)
10,075 deer came from districts 9-17 (west side)

This is general season harvest.

Sure looks like enough people hunt the west side to me.

As a side note. Districts 1,2,3 had 11,000+ deer taken. Most of which would probably be whitetail I would guess.

The population west of the cascades is more than three times larger than the population east of the cascades, and yet we're seeing 60% more deer harvested east of the cascades.

What are you really trying to say?

[KFhunter]

I think he's trying to say that predators east of the PCT is (in the words of Joe Biden) a big freaking deal!

[ljsommer]

A bit of info from 2017 harvest stats...

16,930 deer came from districts 1-8 (east side)
10,075 deer came from districts 9-17 (west side)

This is general season harvest.

Sure looks like enough people hunt the west side to me.

As a side note. Districts 1,2,3 had 11,000+ deer taken. Most of which would probably be whitetail I would guess.

The population west of the cascades is more than three times larger than the population east of the cascades, and yet we're seeing 60% more deer harvested east of the cascades.

what does that have to do with choosing east/west or species.

10k blacktail killed tells me that there would always be people who choose to hunt them over going east.

Well, the way I see it:

If we break up the choices into east/west, that allows us more fine-grained control over harvest. If you take the population of hunters and then make them choose, we can then set a limit on how many 'east side' tags that are available and make them first come first serve. Anyone who wants to hunt will still most definitely have the option to get into their trucks and drive west over the mountains to do what the blacktail hunters over here do: walk fire roads wearing orange or knock on a thousand doors hoping to find someone who didn't vote for Bernie.

Look, if you want to help muley and white tail numbers then I think a good first start is identifying just how many hunters are heading east. I think that number is gigantic, based on what I've seen here.

Edit: I don't know anything about anything so please don't get upset. Think of me as the youngest kid in the household. I have contributed nothing and I know nothing. But I do know operations and workflow and I understand that metrics matter, data matters, and fine-grained control matters when you're trying to address issues of load.
Lastly for one more reason to ignore me: these forums and my own experience have convinced me that hunting here is a dumb idea and I'll likely just hop in the truck and hunt elsewhere, regardless.

[Skyvalhunter]

The info is out there if people legitimately fill out the hunters survey

[BULLBLASTER]

Where hunters come from doesn’t matter. What matters is where they are hunting and what they are killing....

[ljsommer]

I can really easily see why hunter in-fighting happens. There's this weird contradiction of supposedly wanting to keep the sport alive and get more people involved, but then simultaneously not wanting people to succeed because it's less for you if they do. In so many ways there's really no other sport like it.

[BULLBLASTER]

I can really easily see why hunter in-fighting happens. There's this weird contradiction of supposedly wanting to keep the sport alive and get more people involved, but then simultaneously not wanting people to succeed because it's less for you if they do. In so many ways there's really no other sport like it.

I don’t get what your point is. We can’t throw game population management out the door to recruit hunters.

[ljsommer]

I can really easily see why hunter in-fighting happens. There's this weird contradiction of supposedly wanting to keep the sport alive and get more people involved, but then simultaneously not wanting people to succeed because it's less for you if they do. In so many ways there's really no other sport like it.

I don’t get what your point is. We can’t throw game population management out the door to recruit hunters.

I am actually suggesting exactly the opposite. I think it needs to be tightened way, way up. Tighten it up, but then we should also stop pretending that we're really hurting for hunters or that the sport is dying. As evidenced by these forums, we've got way too many hunters for way too little opportunity. The amount of dudes sitting on max points who have been trying to draw something every single year is pretty shocking.

Is there any disagreement here? If we all agree that herd numbers are down across the board, then we have to hunt them less. Keep up the predator hunting, but ease off the ungulates. I don't think this is controversial. Let's then just stop lying to newbies (like myself) in hunter-safety that we really want more hunters.
We don't. We want less hunters. We just want more money.

[Jonathan_S]

You're kind of topic hopping Lj

I keep typing responses but by the time I am done, we've taken another left

As a true OTC state, the points system doesnt have any real bearing on general pressure. Although it does have it's own problems

Who is the we?

[Rainier10]

This topic is getting way off course but to answer one of your questions I will say that we need more hunters for various reasons.  Money is a huge driving force.  The other reason we need more hunters is so that we have a voice.  If there are less and less hunters it is easier to take hunting away from a smaller group.