Hatchery-Wild-Coexist

[duckmen1]

https://hatchery-wild-coexist.com/#mission

I think everyone has seen a result of poor runs and seeing things turn worse over the last few years on our Washington and Oregon rivers. Here is a group trying to change the way hatchery programs are run in a way to benefit larger returns in runs that can benefit native salmon/steelhead returns as well as ways to get some of our fisheries to start producing again. Take a look at there website as well as the Addicted fishing podcast on YouTube on the subject. We can all agree we need change. Take a look and talk about what you think on this. I think it's a great way to try and get stronger healthier runs. Which in return will hopefully quit getting emergency closures on our systems and potentially benefit the fisherman as well as the ones fighting for native returns and seeing no change after true hatchery fish are out of the systems.

[Stein]

Yeah, producing more hatchery fish seems to be a no-brainer unless you are against hatchery fish in general.  Unfortunately, those that are against hatchery fish in general have the ear of the governor and seem pretty good at plugging the court system up.

[Bill W]

More hatchery salmon and steelhead are going to have to be produced to prevent orcas from starving.  We didn't read as much about orcas back when more hatchery fish were in the salt water.

[Alchase]

How do we tell the different between a wild fish and a hatchery fish when they have been releasing unclipped hatchery fish for decades?

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Yep. Feed the Orcas now so we have fish to catch and feed ourselves.  Win win.

[WSU]

How do we tell the different between a wild fish and a hatchery fish when they have been releasing unclipped hatchery fish for decades?

DNA. I haven’t read the link yet but that’s the answer.

[Alchase]

How do we tell the different between a wild fish and a hatchery fish when they have been releasing unclipped hatchery fish for decades?

DNA. I haven’t read the link yet but that’s the answer.

I get that DNA can, but they can’t  test every unclipped  fish that returns to determine which one is wild or not.
I like the idea of restocking the rivers again back to decent levels.

But honestly, part of me thinks if they do not stop the gillnetting, all they would be doing is increasing the catch for only one of three consumer groups.

[Gun smoke]

Not so fast , I’m not a rocket doctor dna specialist and won’t pretend to be , but isn’t it pretty established that hatchery salmon are derived from wild stocks ¿¿¿ Maybe not natural(wild ) from the particular home river system but wild orgin none the less . And possibly( diluted) hatchery stock rearing more hatchery stock , but still wild genetics (dna).  I assume and could very well be wrong that the anti hatchery folks want to stop production of hatchery fish then in time ( probably a long time or never ) the hatchery fish won’t make it or will and then be deemed WILD and everyone will feel great and nobody will be catching and eating salmon or steelhead . Just my theory and I love the way hatchery Springer tastes on the bbq

[Crunchy]

With all the diluted wild/hatchery fish maybe they should stop wasting time marking fish, and just get fish in the river.  Wonder how many truly wild fish exist.  Then we wouldnt have the issue of wild fish release mortality. 

[j_h_nimrod]

With all the diluted wild/hatchery fish maybe they should stop wasting time marking fish, and just get fish in the river.  Wonder how many truly wild fish exist.  Then we wouldnt have the issue of wild fish release mortality.

I would venture none in WA, OR, CA, or BC. There *may* be a very few select streams in AK that have not been influenced by hatchery fish, but I would find it unlikely. Hatcheries have existed on this coast for ~150 years and most early century (pre-WW2) hatcheries were run as factories for packing companies and produced numbers of king, coho, and sockeye unheard of currently.  Not only were the numbers produced large, but there was very little, if any, managed escapement and no genetic considerations period. It was a free for all by private, state, and federal groups and every trickle of water was Johnny Appleseeded with fish, it is hard for me to take the current myth of the “wild” salmon seriously.

[huntnnw]

there isnt a single fish in E WA and ID streams salmon or steelhead that has not been someway or another influenced by hatchery fish. There is no truly 100% wild fish left on this side of the state. I find it hilarious all these stupid laws about barbed hooks and releasing wild salmon and steelhead on this side. Now the Olympic peninsula is another story 

[j_h_nimrod]

there isnt a single fish in E WA and ID streams salmon or steelhead that has not been someway or another influenced by hatchery fish. There is no truly 100% wild fish left on this side of the state. I find it hilarious all these stupid laws about barbed hooks and releasing wild salmon and steelhead on this side. Now the Olympic peninsula is another story

Even out here just about every river of any significance has or had a hatchery on it at some point.

[JimmyHoffa]

there isnt a single fish in E WA and ID streams salmon or steelhead that has not been someway or another influenced by hatchery fish. There is no truly 100% wild fish left on this side of the state. I find it hilarious all these stupid laws about barbed hooks and releasing wild salmon and steelhead on this side. Now the Olympic peninsula is another story

Even out here just about every river of any significance has or had a hatchery on it at some point.

  Nearly every little creek was affected too.  There used to be trucks and trailers that would deliver the smolts just about everywhere.  Might have only been a few hundred fish a year.  These were places you could almost jump across.  WDFW used to have more volunteers and they'd let you work at the hatcheries to raise more fish, then you could sign out the trucks/trailers and go plant fish.  There weren't gates then like now, so places like Kalaloch Creek, Goodman Creek, Cedar Creek, etc all got fish.  If there were unaffected areas they would be higher in the systems.

[timberfaller]

  Having been in the Water War's in the Methow(I was one of those "egregious people of the Methow") , pretty much settled that there is no more "wild" salmon.  A retired manager claimed 1992 was when they figured that the last recorded "wild salmon" was caught. Everything returning is of the Carson stock.   That is why NOAA wanted to destroy the returning salmon at the Fed hatchery's.  Had the Yakima tribe not stepped in they would have succeeded.  Rancher's and Farmer's had no standing!!!

What has resulted is NOAA agreed to limiting the hatchery's catch,  after that the hatchery's have to close their gates and the returning salmon are allowed to continue past the hatchery's and THEY become the "wild salmon" that will be controlled by the ESA and NOAA.

NOAA refused to look at and adhere to "Known and established Science" concerning Salmon Returns.   They had an agenda to accomplish and they succeeded. Piping the Methow Valley's open ditches.  Which in turn had the OPPOSITE effect they told the public would happen,  instead of MORE water during the returning salmon they got LESS.  They refused to believe the farmers and rancher about "underground recharge" the open ditches contributed to!!!   So, with the recharge done away with you have less water in the rivers when needed bringing about less fish.  Oh ya, they also(NOAA)refused to believe "predators" had any factor on returning/leaving(fingerlings) numbers too!   Stupid is as Stupid does!

[duckmen1]

The point of this broodstock program on steelhead is to take a percentage of native fish and nonleathal spawn releasing those adults back and they are seeing 4 percent plus return rate in smolt vs regular hatchery fish seeing about a .5 percent smolt return. They are seeing much larger fish with better genetics. Healthier and stronger runs with different hatchery updated programs with low mortality rates. It is showing that if they modernize there way of hatchery programs they are not seeing impacts on native runs but are actually benefiting from it.

It seems by the responses that most people may not actually be looking at the program listed. That we all know at the state we are in and the programs currently being used are not working. Check out this group and see what you think.

[Skillet]

Thanks for bringing this up.  More fish = more happy everybody (except possibly the Wild Fish Conservancy and their supporters). I didn't see whether or not the H&W have a position on commercial harvest, but if they don't explicitly oppose non-tribal commercials, I will throw my full support behind this group.  Along with a lot of other people who earn a living off the production of the hatchery fish.
 
Let's hope this one gets some traction. 

[Skillet]

Dave from the Hatchery & Wild project got back to me already on my question about whether H&WC had a position on non-tribal commercial harvest:

"Hi Chris.  


That's a question that gets asked a lot.


H&WC is focused on highlighting the importance of hatcheries with the goal of providing healthy and abundant fisheries for all users.  Harvest methods are not part of the hatchery equation or H&WC's agenda.


Dave"

This is good news to an open-ocean mixed-stock fisher like myself.  Put more fish out, get more fish back. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Big  to @duckmen1 in bringing this up here. 

[duckmen1]

Thank you Skillet. As with any group trying to achieve goals this one in particular it will take time to establish throughout different areas but with more publicity it can take off very quickly if we get the right users to find ways to help this program. With the way the program wants to see things it could end the thoughts of this person is getting this and this person isn't getting that. They want to see enough fish to where we can maximize the carrying compacity to where everyone recreational or commercial can have a good share and still have a stable run to where all users are happy.
If anyone has any doubts about this program just take a look at the Quinalt reservation who is having absolutely incredible steelhead runs when the rest of the state is struggling. They have been doing this program for many years and it's showing incredible results on returns. To my knowledge they are netting 6 days a week and recreational fisherman are having catch rates that are unheard of. With huge healthy fish. Please take a look and see what you guys think.

[castie2504]

While fishing for metal heads on the Snake River several years ago I hooked a massive “wild” B run steelhead. Of course I got it in and released it while in water. An old timer who was nearby (at least 70 years young I estimated) asked me if the fish was unclipped. I said yes sir, it was wild. He rashly told me to not call unclipped fish as wild. He was genuinely mad that I called it a wild fish. He said that there were no longer any true wild fish left in the northwest, that the hatchery programs have destroyed the wild fish stocks. Being young and dumb I kind of brushed him off and carried on with the day. It wasn’t until a few years later that I understood what the gentleman meant. It’s a d@mn shame that our once prosperous river systems have been relegated to what we have now. It’s even worse that the current management programs are all about numbers to make sure everyone gets a share rather than real recovery. I fear we may have lost what was once an incredible fishery thanks to the dams, overfishing and many other issues. I am not against the hatcheries, I support supplementing the naturally reproducing fish stocks but I hope someday science can help us heal our rivers and along with them the spectacular runs that once were.

[Skyvalhunter]

U know what they say about hope