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Author Topic: GoHunt for Washington is live  (Read 16172 times)

Offline B4noon

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2019, 06:49:52 AM »
There is good news coming just to early to release but they are currently working on developing a system where you can cash in  points in exchange for prizes much like frequent flyer miles.  Proposed rewards are 1 chinook to feed orcas =20 pts,  free registration on the national bumble bee atlas= 10pts and providing refreshments for management in the NRB building on popcorn friday (which is actually a happening thing)  =5pts

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2019, 07:10:04 AM »
There is good news coming just to early to release but they are currently working on developing a system where you can cash in  points in exchange for prizes much like frequent flyer miles.  Proposed rewards are 1 chinook to feed orcas =20 pts,  free registration on the national bumble bee atlas= 10pts and providing refreshments for management in the NRB building on popcorn friday (which is actually a happening thing)  =5pts
  :IBCOOL: I get 4 salmon :IBCOOL:
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

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Offline milldozer

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2019, 07:10:39 AM »
I've seen it thrown around before, but I like the idea of only being able to apply for one special permit or one OIL per year.  Raise the cost of the applications for each species so no revenue is lost.  Also, not to be morbid, but eventually points will be eliminated from the pools.  People can't live forever..

Offline Stein

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #78 on: May 02, 2019, 07:17:04 AM »
I've seen it thrown around before, but I like the idea of only being able to apply for one special permit or one OIL per year.  Raise the cost of the applications for each species so no revenue is lost.  Also, not to be morbid, but eventually points will be eliminated from the pools.  People can't live forever..

Yeah, only problem is that I believe the general hunting population would come unglued.  I think there are a) many people that don't understand the current situation and wouldn't accept what they perceive to be a net loss (big price increase for less tags) and b) people that do understand, but prefer long odds at a bunch of things over better odds at one thing.

WDFW doesn't have much motivation to change unless they get a hit to the license revenue and think they need to change in order to right the ship.  When the number of applications and applicants goes up every year, it basically sends a message to them that we think it's a good program.

It's not a Ponzi scheme, it needs another name, but basically there is this innacurate belief that the points they are selling have value.  The closest thing is relating it to a crypto currency but you can't actually buy anything with the currency.  They get $13 for something that doesn't cost them, doesn't have any value but we think it's awesome until we are no longer able to hunt and realize the 47 points we have accumulated are worthless.

Offline X-Force

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2019, 08:25:14 AM »
I have 15 points in most categories and my odds are only going to get worse and worse each year.

We need to go to preference or something. We have THE WORST draw system in the country.

How about

1/2 go to top point holders who are in each draw
1/2 go random like idaho / new mexico?

What are your thoughts behind going to a preference system?

You have 15 points in most categories so in OILs you have hundreds of people between you and “top” points, I don’t believe you will ever be in top points in your lifetime even if top points got 100% of the permits.
People get offended at nothing at all. So, speak your mind and be unapologetic.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #80 on: May 02, 2019, 08:29:53 AM »
I've seen it thrown around before, but I like the idea of only being able to apply for one special permit or one OIL per year.  Raise the cost of the applications for each species so no revenue is lost.  Also, not to be morbid, but eventually points will be eliminated from the pools.  People can't live forever..

Yeah, only problem is that I believe the general hunting population would come unglued.  I think there are a) many people that don't understand the current situation and wouldn't accept what they perceive to be a net loss (big price increase for less tags) and b) people that do understand, but prefer long odds at a bunch of things over better odds at one thing.

WDFW doesn't have much motivation to change unless they get a hit to the license revenue and think they need to change in order to right the ship.  When the number of applications and applicants goes up every year, it basically sends a message to them that we think it's a good program.

It's not a Ponzi scheme, it needs another name, but basically there is this innacurate belief that the points they are selling have value.  The closest thing is relating it to a crypto currency but you can't actually buy anything with the currency.  They get $13 for something that doesn't cost them, doesn't have any value but we think it's awesome until we are no longer able to hunt and realize the 47 points we have accumulated are worthless.
yeah but to blame wdfw for people's ignorance on draw odds or even how the draws actually work isn't exactly fair.  At the end of the day people need to be a smart consumer. WDFW sucks on many levels misunderstanding of how our system works is the fault of the individual
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

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Offline Stein

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2019, 08:45:10 AM »
Agreed, I think hunters should (and do) have a huge input on the system.  Unfortunately, when we do it's for stuff like squaring points, adding a senior category, adding more categories, splitting categories, and generally pushing it in the wrong direction.

I'm not really blaming anyone, just saying it's broken and doubt that we have the willpower to change it.  Many would argue it isn't broken and think that paying $13 for a 0.3% chance at a tag is reasonable.  That's a valid opinion if that is what they believe.

Offline Bob33

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #82 on: May 02, 2019, 08:58:39 AM »
Facts about our draw system:

- Odds for the best permits, even with maximum points are very low.
- Odds with 20 points are better than odds with 1 point or 19 points.
- Odds for non-applicants are even lower.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline buglebrush

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2019, 09:02:58 AM »
It really is simple. Limit people to one application.  Your must choose only one.  It would totally work.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2019, 10:35:25 AM »
It really is simple. Limit people to one application.  Your must choose only one.  It would totally work.


 :yeah: I have no skin in this game and never will but that would solve the problem. Too many people probably believe a bunch of chances with less than 1% odds are better than 1 choice with above average odds that would be the fight. I think it will be harder for hunters who have actually hit the lottery to accept that 1 choice is better. Unless they are really willing to look at the facts and do the math.   

Offline Stein

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2019, 10:53:51 AM »
It really is simple. Limit people to one application.  Your must choose only one.  It would totally work.


 :yeah: I have no skin in this game and never will but that would solve the problem. Too many people probably believe a bunch of chances with less than 1% odds are better than 1 choice with above average odds that would be the fight. I think it will be harder for hunters who have actually hit the lottery to accept that 1 choice is better. Unless they are really willing to look at the facts and do the math.   

This is absolutely true.  I would also add that their opinion that the current system is better is just as valid as my opinion that it is horrible.

Offline jamesfromseattle

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2019, 11:04:44 AM »
 
It really is simple. Limit people to one application.  Your must choose only one.  It would totally work.

I’m in agreement but would also be in favor of one choice for one application. That being said, I’m on the new side of the points game so I’m biased. Would probably feel different if I had a ton of points in every category.

Offline kselkhunter

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2019, 11:06:14 AM »
All draw systems have flaws.   Long time residents of a state argue their "investment" of points is more important.  Others prefer the random draw process of ID or NM being more fair to improve new hunter and newer resident recruitment.   

Oregon does random draws for their OIL tags with not points, and all other tags are 75% based on points, 25% random.  And no split categories (except there is an antlerless deer similar to WA's second deer).  People there still complain just as much as WA.   

Getting top tags in UT, AZ, etc. still take decades.  Point creep continues to extend.   There really is no "right answer".   Population of humans is increasing.  Habitat is decreasing.   

That being said I just don't see how WA doesn't reach an inflection point in the coming years where they have to seriously consider going to random draw for at least some of the tags.   


Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2019, 11:17:52 AM »
All draw systems have flaws.   Long time residents of a state argue their "investment" of points is more important.  Others prefer the random draw process of ID or NM being more fair to improve new hunter and newer resident recruitment.   

Oregon does random draws for their OIL tags with not points, and all other tags are 75% based on points, 25% random.  And no split categories (except there is an antlerless deer similar to WA's second deer).  People there still complain just as much as WA.   

Getting top tags in UT, AZ, etc. still take decades.  Point creep continues to extend.   There really is no "right answer".   Population of humans is increasing.  Habitat is decreasing.   

That being said I just don't see how WA doesn't reach an inflection point in the coming years where they have to seriously consider going to random draw for at least some of the tags.
nicely summarized  :tup:
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

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Offline Stein

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Re: GoHunt for Washington is live
« Reply #89 on: May 02, 2019, 11:18:02 AM »
When 1,000 people apply for 5 tags, it doesn't matter how you orchestrate the system.

 


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